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	<title>Comments on: Mayawati, Obama and the political elite !</title>
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	<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/</link>
	<description>A Point of View</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/comment-page-1/#comment-5845</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calamur.org/gargi/?p=901#comment-5845</guid>
		<description>Some thoughts on the basic difference between Obamas election and a possible mayawati win:


http://amuseandmore.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some thoughts on the basic difference between Obamas election and a possible mayawati win:</p>
<p><a href="http://amuseandmore.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://amuseandmore.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: astralwicks</title>
		<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/comment-page-1/#comment-5429</link>
		<dc:creator>astralwicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mayawati is a political elite? beats me. race is a factor everywhere. right from selecting the fair husband or wife for our sons and daughters to the elections. McCain is an ex POW who served in the Vietnam war. His entire campaign is about lies and distortions including the race slant. We have many in India. India has the politicians, but it doesn&#039;t have the leaders. Even Mahashweta Devi, grudgingly accepted that Modi has done better for his state than the communists in 30 years, but he is not the kind we are looking for. 
What Obama represents is a break from tradition and old styles of thinking. He has over the last 18 months inspired the nation. Who in India can do that, without using emotive issues of Religion, Caste etc. The day that happens - somebody inspires a nation because of ISSUES; issues that the common man faces, we have our Man or Woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mayawati is a political elite? beats me. race is a factor everywhere. right from selecting the fair husband or wife for our sons and daughters to the elections. McCain is an ex POW who served in the Vietnam war. His entire campaign is about lies and distortions including the race slant. We have many in India. India has the politicians, but it doesn&#8217;t have the leaders. Even Mahashweta Devi, grudgingly accepted that Modi has done better for his state than the communists in 30 years, but he is not the kind we are looking for.<br />
What Obama represents is a break from tradition and old styles of thinking. He has over the last 18 months inspired the nation. Who in India can do that, without using emotive issues of Religion, Caste etc. The day that happens &#8211; somebody inspires a nation because of ISSUES; issues that the common man faces, we have our Man or Woman.</p>
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		<title>By: prax</title>
		<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/comment-page-1/#comment-5428</link>
		<dc:creator>prax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calamur.org/gargi/?p=901#comment-5428</guid>
		<description>But then again he is also for the small person change and the likes 

agree with you 
but me - i consider most politicians crooks and murderers - and dont single anyone out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then again he is also for the small person change and the likes </p>
<p>agree with you<br />
but me &#8211; i consider most politicians crooks and murderers &#8211; and dont single anyone out</p>
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		<title>By: kuffir</title>
		<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/comment-page-1/#comment-5384</link>
		<dc:creator>kuffir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calamur.org/gargi/?p=901#comment-5384</guid>
		<description>last things first:

&#039;And the BSP sees the OBC as the â€˜foeâ€™ . But, the OBC is also possibly the largest chunk of India. How does she resolve that ?&#039;

the bsp doesn&#039;t see the obcs as the foe. far from it. in truth, in the 2007 polls they constitute the second largest social base among her voters. and it has been steadily increasing over the years. the sp was never truly a pan-obc party and has been a party of yadavs/muslims and some thakurs for more than a decade now. and now, (even) the muslims are moving away- they constitute another large social base of bsp..the upper castes and the brahmins actually constitute a distant last among her supporters.

and how does the media present that reality? every rag in the country almost makes it seem like mayawati won because of he brahmins. that&#039;s because every rag in the national media is overwhelmingly staffed by brahmin reporters (remember the csds survey and the praful bidwai informal survey earlier?)

except for a couple of dalit intellectuals excessively promoted by a fawning national media no one among the dalit intelligentsia sees the obcs as foes. and definitely not mayawati. she had been doing every other obc caste in u.p. apart from the yadavs since quite a long time. only the yadavs remain somewhat solidly behind mulayam singh. 

that&#039;s a major reason why she has a national appeal now, cutting across divisions among the lower castes. the third front, so  derisively dismissed by more than  one commentator here, has support from a wide range of mainstream &#039;regional&#039; parties beyond the hindi heartlland. in a.p., and karnataka, except for the congress, every political party has expressed support for mayawati. the tdp, for instance, derives its support, mainly from the obcs and the kammas in the state.  deve gowda, despite recent reverses, represents a solid social base among the upper and other obcs in karnataka. and when some of the dravidian parties in tamil nadu join the alliance (as they will before or after polls) the mayawati-dalit-obc alliance would gain a more respectable shape. 

those parties (that i referred to) represent the visible face of obc-intermediate caste politics..but in other states (except for up and bihar) you might see fewer (lok dal and chautala&#039;s party) such visible faces- obc driven political parties which have survived over more than two decades. but the social bases are there, and they&#039;ve been shifting their allegiance in every election since the late sixties, moving away from the mainstream parties (that&#039;s one visible trend). it&#039;s only the failure of the formation of a strong (and coherent) anti-caste socio-political movement by the leadership of these sections that&#039;s stopping the rise of a credible alternative (in the form of a &#039;national&#039; political party). now, mayawati perhaps would bridge that gap (not fully, but through tactical alliances). the voters are there, have been there since the late sixties, looking for leaders and organizations. the third front will mostly be marked by more &#039;disasters&#039; and squabbling and then regrouping and again &#039;disaster&#039; in the next one decade, as i see it. but the emergence of strong leaders like mayawati represent  change- a stronger leadership with a stronger individual social base (unlike charan singh, v.p singh, gujral, gowda) might make all the difference. and one of the two national parties (and the communists) would&#039;ve to support her from &#039;outside&#039;, even if she wins, on her own, fewer seats than them- they&#039;d have limited choices.


political elite: 

as i hinted earlier, brahmins are not important to mayawati as voters, except in u. p and a couple of smaller states where they constitute more than 5-6% of the voters there are other important reasons for her to woo the brahmins. 

it&#039;s not because the &#039;mostly urban&#039; brahmins have little &#039;class conflict&#039; with the &#039;mostly rural dalits&#039;, as painted by some vocal sections of the academia and the media, that she has sought to court the brahmins and other upper castes. it is because of the power that they wield in the bureaucracy, the media and academia, the bar and modern industry, and other important institutions that make and sell &#039;opinion&#039;, &#039;expertise&#039; and &#039;knowledge&#039;- it would be useful (for her) not to antagonize them totally. they&#039;re more important to her in that sense. it is they who decide who&#039;s a &#039;natural&#039; candidate for prime ministership- it is this elite which decides who&#039;s the &#039;political elite&#039;. 

but i see your point and this debate would go on. it&#039;s a good post and thanks for responding to my comment, at such length.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>last things first:</p>
<p>&#8216;And the BSP sees the OBC as the â€˜foeâ€™ . But, the OBC is also possibly the largest chunk of India. How does she resolve that ?&#8217;</p>
<p>the bsp doesn&#8217;t see the obcs as the foe. far from it. in truth, in the 2007 polls they constitute the second largest social base among her voters. and it has been steadily increasing over the years. the sp was never truly a pan-obc party and has been a party of yadavs/muslims and some thakurs for more than a decade now. and now, (even) the muslims are moving away- they constitute another large social base of bsp..the upper castes and the brahmins actually constitute a distant last among her supporters.</p>
<p>and how does the media present that reality? every rag in the country almost makes it seem like mayawati won because of he brahmins. that&#8217;s because every rag in the national media is overwhelmingly staffed by brahmin reporters (remember the csds survey and the praful bidwai informal survey earlier?)</p>
<p>except for a couple of dalit intellectuals excessively promoted by a fawning national media no one among the dalit intelligentsia sees the obcs as foes. and definitely not mayawati. she had been doing every other obc caste in u.p. apart from the yadavs since quite a long time. only the yadavs remain somewhat solidly behind mulayam singh. </p>
<p>that&#8217;s a major reason why she has a national appeal now, cutting across divisions among the lower castes. the third front, so  derisively dismissed by more than  one commentator here, has support from a wide range of mainstream &#8216;regional&#8217; parties beyond the hindi heartlland. in a.p., and karnataka, except for the congress, every political party has expressed support for mayawati. the tdp, for instance, derives its support, mainly from the obcs and the kammas in the state.  deve gowda, despite recent reverses, represents a solid social base among the upper and other obcs in karnataka. and when some of the dravidian parties in tamil nadu join the alliance (as they will before or after polls) the mayawati-dalit-obc alliance would gain a more respectable shape. </p>
<p>those parties (that i referred to) represent the visible face of obc-intermediate caste politics..but in other states (except for up and bihar) you might see fewer (lok dal and chautala&#8217;s party) such visible faces- obc driven political parties which have survived over more than two decades. but the social bases are there, and they&#8217;ve been shifting their allegiance in every election since the late sixties, moving away from the mainstream parties (that&#8217;s one visible trend). it&#8217;s only the failure of the formation of a strong (and coherent) anti-caste socio-political movement by the leadership of these sections that&#8217;s stopping the rise of a credible alternative (in the form of a &#8216;national&#8217; political party). now, mayawati perhaps would bridge that gap (not fully, but through tactical alliances). the voters are there, have been there since the late sixties, looking for leaders and organizations. the third front will mostly be marked by more &#8216;disasters&#8217; and squabbling and then regrouping and again &#8216;disaster&#8217; in the next one decade, as i see it. but the emergence of strong leaders like mayawati represent  change- a stronger leadership with a stronger individual social base (unlike charan singh, v.p singh, gujral, gowda) might make all the difference. and one of the two national parties (and the communists) would&#8217;ve to support her from &#8216;outside&#8217;, even if she wins, on her own, fewer seats than them- they&#8217;d have limited choices.</p>
<p>political elite: </p>
<p>as i hinted earlier, brahmins are not important to mayawati as voters, except in u. p and a couple of smaller states where they constitute more than 5-6% of the voters there are other important reasons for her to woo the brahmins. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s not because the &#8216;mostly urban&#8217; brahmins have little &#8216;class conflict&#8217; with the &#8216;mostly rural dalits&#8217;, as painted by some vocal sections of the academia and the media, that she has sought to court the brahmins and other upper castes. it is because of the power that they wield in the bureaucracy, the media and academia, the bar and modern industry, and other important institutions that make and sell &#8216;opinion&#8217;, &#8216;expertise&#8217; and &#8216;knowledge&#8217;- it would be useful (for her) not to antagonize them totally. they&#8217;re more important to her in that sense. it is they who decide who&#8217;s a &#8216;natural&#8217; candidate for prime ministership- it is this elite which decides who&#8217;s the &#8216;political elite&#8217;. </p>
<p>but i see your point and this debate would go on. it&#8217;s a good post and thanks for responding to my comment, at such length.</p>
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		<title>By: Vinod Sharma</title>
		<link>http://calamur.org/gargi/2008/09/04/mayawati-obama-and-the-political-elite/comment-page-1/#comment-5383</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinod Sharma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting post and discussion. Mayawati and Modi are, in a way, nearest to being India&#039;s Obamas, for entirely different reasons. 

Obama is really an idea, a vision, the likes of which is, sadly, not visible in the India of today. 

Is it a coincidence that Obama has a picture of Gandhi in his office, when there is no obligation to do so in the US? Obama is the Change that India needs even more desperately than the US. I am sure the day is not far when he will emerge to take India out of the mess that our petty politicians have put it in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post and discussion. Mayawati and Modi are, in a way, nearest to being India&#8217;s Obamas, for entirely different reasons. </p>
<p>Obama is really an idea, a vision, the likes of which is, sadly, not visible in the India of today. </p>
<p>Is it a coincidence that Obama has a picture of Gandhi in his office, when there is no obligation to do so in the US? Obama is the Change that India needs even more desperately than the US. I am sure the day is not far when he will emerge to take India out of the mess that our petty politicians have put it in.</p>
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