…. both men and women seem to support the idea that women who ‘ask for it’ tend to ‘get it’. Unfortunately, no one seems to be able to define what “it” means and whether “it” means different things to men and women ( it does !)
HT , which broke the story and led with it since New Year’s, has done a stellar job. It’s most recent update is a survey that indicates what a ‘cross section’ of men really think..
46% think that if a woman goes to a bar she is ‘inviting’ trouble; 46% think that if a woman swore at them they would be tempted to get physical or aggressive; 60% believe that the ‘ideal’ woman will be the ‘at home’ types who forswears parties and doesn’t go out; 64% of respondents believe that women in bar who are friendly are looking for ‘one night stands’.
I am not surprised. We have a very binary view of women in India – she is either the virginal wife (how ??) or the slut. There are no in betweens. R once told me that there were two kinds of women, women you had a good time with and women you went to see with your mother….
I have been following the scene in blogdom fairly closely. What is surprising is the number of male bloggers who are outraged at the incident and the number of women who are of the view that ‘women should know better’ and take more precaution.
When women, especially women who appreciate and value independence talk about a self imposed lakshman rekha – as they have done here, here, here, here – for safety and security, I understand and appreciate it….. There are times that I have thought and acted in similar ways…. but I am not sure that it is the solution.
The trouble with lakshman rekha’s is that the onus of ‘appropriate’ behaviour is put on the victim. Sita got kidnapped because she crossed the lakshman rekha (not because ravan kidnapped her) ; Draupadi gets stripped because she is a woman with5 husbands and has no shame – not because her husband lost her in a gamble and her brother-in-law stripped her; the women who got groped at and stripped were at a 5 star hotel- how dare they leave the home…. and have fun and say no to men who want to feel them up and grope them..
One of the female bloggers said that don’t go where it isn’t safe … I gagged…. what a simple solution to keep safe…. I wonder why no one thought of it earlier…. Only one problem…. … please, where is it safe ? Women get molested in buses, trains, homes, colleges, loos, outside 5 star hotels, in villages, in legislative offices, practically everywhere… so what is safe …. do we all wear the purdah and stay at home…. oops we can’t because most rapes and molestations happen in the family … then where…
Maybe, just maybe, the cause isn’t women wearing clothes that don’t cover their ‘modesty’ (what ever that is); or women getting drunk enough to totter and puke ( a horrible state to be in, irrespective of gender). Maybe the problem is that we tolerate bad behavior towards women in the home and it just becomes a habit outside. Maybe, the problem is that we tolerate this in 70% of our homes:
As many as 70 per cent of married women in India between the age of 15 and 49 are victims of beating, rape or coerced sex, the United Nation Population Fund report said.
If children in 70% of our families grow up thinking that it is ok to use violence on women, especially for sex, then it is hardly surprising that they behave in the way that they do..
Other Views:
Thanks for the link. I remember once writing something along the lines of what you’ve said here: We have a very binary view of women in India – she is either the virginal wife (how ??) or the slut, and received quite a few outraged responses to the statement. It was good to see that I’m not the only one who holds that opinion.
The difference in approach is really the difference between the individual and society. As an individual, one tries to take care of oneself, because one cannot change others’ behavior.
But when one starts preaching to others saying “women should control their actions else they are unsafe”, then one strays into the territory of justifying society’s patriarchial, medieval attitude. If you are going to try to change others’ behavior, you should target the men, not the women.
For as you pointed out, and as I have also said in my blog, it’s not the women who are responsible – it’s the twisted minds of some (male)perverts. Society unfortunately chooses to wink at the men and blame the women.
At the end of the day, there is nothing women can do that will guarantee our safety, because we are not the perpetrators, and we have no control over what those twisted male minds will do.
Hi Harini, thanks for the link 🙂
I dont think I’d argue with a single word that you’ve written. As far as the lakshman rekha thing goes, it’s one of my least favorite expressions for precisely the reasons you’ve laid out.
@ nandita – Hi… 🙂 great minds think alike (and i won’t complete the phrase)
@lekhni – Hi …. i have been reading the Shiv sena’s comments on this … where they say ‘pubbing’ is responsible for this. And i shudder….. keep the women locked up and they will be safe seems to be the response.
@Amrita, Hi…. the lakshman rekha is scary, but somehow it only applies to us… and it is also frightening to see so many political voices saying terrible that it happened….. but …. it is the underlying ‘but’ that is disturbing.. While all of us individually need to take care of ourselves so as to not land up in such a situation…..it becomes slightly restrictive when it becomes applied to us as a collective..
Harini, re. the virginal wife, am surprised you dont know this – the wife re. sex is only doing her duty as as a good wife – and is thinking only of her husband all the time therefore virginal in mind. she does not actually like it, you see. as for any pleasure… slut!
also yes, where are women safe? a man poses as an officer from the electricity bod, enters home in bandra and rapes a woman during the day – last week’s news. so… and young girls getting molested from family members, it is always, hush dont tell lies. guilt to add to the shame…
I think the entire problem stems from the fact that women(and society) prize and boast about their modesty.
Men get assaulted many many times more than women and much more brutally but do we ever raise alarms about their modesty being torn apart.
I think we should get away with all these modesty related laws(from rape to eve teasing) and have one common law for both the genders for assault on an individual.
Well, all points you and the others mentioned being true, I would like to point out to a diogonal thought…. Agreed that girls have to know where to draw a line, why should that line take the form of a
Rekha? If you feel uncomfortable at a place (and girls have that sixth sense, you know!), chuck it and go back; but why abide to the lines drawn by men, who are more of predators than protectors?? By abiding to that, we are giving men the right to harm you, if you don’t stay within the confirms THEY have laid for you!! Why??
@charu – Hi.. tnx for clarifying that …. virginal wife :)…
no where is safe……and in India you have that catch all escape from jail card…. the rapist offers to marry his victim.. and he goes scot free and she gets a life sentance…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/2_get_bail_for_marrying_rape_victims/articleshow/2661656.cms
Hi Amruta
completely. I have done this so many times…. felt uncomfortable and left….
lakshman rekha is not just the rules that men make, .. it is also society at large, with the active participation and co option of women .. this is against our ‘culture’ ….this concept of what is ‘culturally acceptable’ actually sees a lot of stuff against women who don’t follow ‘culturally acceptable norms’ – dating, smoking, drinking, hanging out, wearing modern clothes, working — get targeted….
Some of the worst offenders of the moral brigade in India are women… have you seen images of women activists (not all women activists fight for women 🙂
who blacken the faces of couples in public parks…
Oh yeah, you are right Gargi! There’s no denying that sometimes women are the real enemies of women… but, as the matter of fact goes, these societal rules were indeed made by men, in the paleolithic age!!! ‘Moral’ women activists are merely abiding by these rules, and tormenting those who happen to flout them! What say?
oh absolutely… i don’t want to be too hard on the men… there are many that i genuinely like 🙂
More on Draupadi and virginal wives – I remember reading that Draupadi apparently had to “purify” herself by walking through fire after a night with each brother..and during the Pandavas’ last journey up the Himalayas, Draupadi falls first. Yudhishtira (the “Dharma-putra”) says this is because “though she was married to all of us, she really liked Arjuna most”. Well, she wanted to marry Arjuna, not the rest of you…so yes, blaming the woman is nothing new 🙁
Hi lekhni,
have you read pratibha ray’s yagnaseni… the mahabharat from draupadi’s pov… it is brilliant….
she is born from the fire as an instrument of death (to kill drona)
won by one man who shared her with her brothers
gambled by her husband and stripped by her brother in law
in the jungle during exile she is still a prey…. there are a couple of times when kings try to make a play for her … but she is successfully ‘protected’ by her husbands…
then the final year at viraat where someone tries to rape her and bhima kill her…
then the war… where her husbands survive but her children die…
and then this epitaph by the man who gambled her… what a terrible life….
Wasnt she also the first to fall off the mountain? And talking about women being co-opted, the Pandavas were following Kunti’s “orders” by divvying Draupadi up.
Amrita, not really Kunti’s orders. Apparently, there was a misunderstanding. The way I heard it, the Pandavas said “woman” and Kunti heard it as “fruit” or something like that..she did not notice Draupadi when she asked them to divvy up..
And the ever-dutiful Pandavas were only too happy to hold Kunti to her word..they never disobey Ma’s orders, you see..
Gargi, never read Yagnaseni..looks like a terrific book. I am going to hunt for it now..
You are right, Draupadi had an awful life, much worse than Sita in many ways. But she was one courageous woman. I believe Draupadi was considered a “feminist” or “modern” for her time.
@ Amrita
the mother’s word was law.. there are those who interpret it as simply miscommunication but others – who believed that kunti wanted the marriage to all 5 to preserve the unity amongst the brothers….so that they never fall out fighting over draupadi…
check out iravati karve’s yugantar – fabulous…. she reads meanings behind everyone’s actions…it is a fascinating study…
Hi Lekhni
yagnaseni is fabulous and heartbreaking…i agree she was penalized for having an opinion…
on sita – the early interpretations are radically different from the ‘wimpified’ sita… she a lot tougher than the door mat we get to see….:) btw there is one more ramayan on Indian television … and i am sure that it will be even more opulent and regressive than earlier version…
Gargi,
My views on Sita had been colored by Deepika Chikhaliya going “Sach, sach” and bursting into tears every 5 minutes. Until I read the reviews of Banker’s Ramayana and realized that Sita was actually not that bad 🙂
One more Ramayan? I know one impact it will not have – the roads will never turn deserted at 10 am on a weekend morning again 🙂
especially given the fact that some idiot has decided to run it at 9.30 pm – mondays through to thursdays….4 days of an ‘ideal man’ doing the right thing – just after we have got home after compromising the whole day long 🙂
we popularly call this sagar ramayan… as being very distinct from valmiki or kamban or tulsi …..:)
Yes, sagar ramayan was great in how kitschy it was. I remember loving those war scenes where I would be trying to predict which arrow will fade first..