It seems to be open season on formulating legislation… Everyone and his idiot cousin has gotten onto the bandwagon. And, underlying this desire to legislate to solve India’s problems lies a deeply fascist thought -” I know better than you. I care more than you and therefore I have the right to take over your life and the way you live it – and rule it with an iron hand”. … a deeply dangerous thought. Be it Anna Hazare and his bunch of Jan Lok Pal supporters or the NAC and its Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence Bill – the assumption of I know better than you, and if you oppose me you are pro corruption and pro communal violence – is a dangerous trend in a political space that is already polarised.
Both corruption and communal violence are the bane of Indian society .. but, having unimplementable laws that create monolithic institutions with a concentration of power is not the solution. The solution is far simpler ..implement the laws that exist.
With both the bills I am going to assume “good intention” – i have no reason to believe that those behind the Jan Lok Pal Bill or the PCTV bill have any malicious intent. I am also going to assume that they genuinely care about the problem at hand – corruption and communal violence. My views on the Jan Lok Pal bill is fairly well known to anyone following this blog or my twitter stream (i think i went bonkers at that time and flooded mine & other people’s timelines with my opposition to the bill). Friends asked me – why are you supporting corruption. And, the answer was simple – I wasn’t. I just didnt want one unaccountable system replaced with another even more draconian unaccountable body.
Last week when the Prevention of Communal & Targeted Violence Bill came out and I posted on twitter that it was flawed – very flawed and that the BJP should turn up in Parliament to properly debate both this and the JLP — rather than posturing in TV studios. A friend called me up and asked me when I changed sides and moved from being Secular to being Communal. I was zapped. And hurt. I haven’t been brought up to be communal. I detest communal thought, behaviour and attitudes. I have always spoken out agaisnt them – and yet, my opposition to the proposed bill was getting me labelled as Communal.
So if I am not communal, and I hate riots, why do I oppose the bill. The answer is simple- because I have read it. What am I against? well,
- It is anti the Republic of India.
- It is against the basic principles of non discrimination
- It violates the rights of the States
- It violates the rights of individuals.
- It over rides the basis of the criminal justice system and says “guilty by association” and ‘guilty until proved innocent’.
And that is just for a start.
See these definitions:
- e) “group” means a religious or linguistic minority, in any State in the Union of India, or Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes within the meaning of clauses (24) and (25) of Article 366 of the Constitution of India;
What happens if the Tamils and the Biharis in Maharashtra riot against each other ? is it a communal riot or is it a friendly skirmish ?
What happens if a SC ‘group’ that is Buddhist riots against a ST group that is Christian ? obviously another friendly skirmish. What happens if a Maharashtrian Hindu family in Dharavi ( predominantly settled by Tamilians of all religions) is attacked – is the Maharashtrian Hindu family a majority or a minority ? Are the people who died in the train compartment in Godhra – marjority or minority or simply victims… what a discriminatory clause !!
- j) “victim” means any person belonging to a group as defined under this Act, who has suffered physical, mental, psychological or monetary harm or harm to his or her property as a result of the commission of any offence under this Act, and includes his or her relatives, legal guardian and legal heirs, wherever appropriate;
so if there is a riot in Mumbai between a majority community – either linguistic or religious – and a minority community – either linguistic or religious -and I – a minority – cannot get to work for 5 days – have i suffered monetary harm ?
- 4 – Knowledge.- A person is said to knowingly direct any act against a person belonging to a group by virtue of such person’s membership of that group where:(a) he or she means to engage in the conduct against a person he or she knows belongs to that group; or,(b) with the knowledge that the person belongs to a group, he or she means to cause injury or harm to such person because of the membership of such person to that group.
At the risk of sounding stupid, how do you prove this ?
- 8 – Hate propaganda.– Notwithstanding anything contained in any other law for the time being in force, whoever publishes, communicates or disseminates by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representation or otherwise acts inciting hatred causing clear and present danger of violence against a group or persons belonging to that group, in general or specifically, or disseminates or broadcasts any information, or publishes or displays any advertisement or notice, that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate an intention to promote or incite hatred or expose or is likely to expose the group or persons belonging to that group to such hatred, is said to be guilty of hate propaganda.
ok – if we write vehemently against the Khap Panchayats – and let us say that the people rise up against the Khap Panchayat, and maybe beat them up – is it hate propaganda ?
- 10. Aiding financially, materially or in kind for commission of offence under this Act.– Whoever knowingly expends or supplies any money or any material or aids in kind thereof, in furtherance or in support of an act which is an offence under this Act is said to be guilty of aiding financially in the commission of an offence under this Act.
again, at the risk of sounding stupid, how do you prove this ?
- 13. Dereliction of duty.- When any person who is or was a public servant not removable from his or her office save by or with the sanction of the Central Government or State Government, as the case may be, authorized to act under any provision of this Act:(a) exercises the authority vested in him or her colourably or in a manner otherwise than provided under law for the time being in force, which causes or is likely to lead to an offence of communal and targeted violence or by which he or she intends to screen or knowing it to be likely that he or she will thereby screen any person from legal punishment; or, (b) omits to exercise lawful authority vested in him or her under law, without reasonable cause, thereby fails to prevent the commission of communal and targeted violence, breach of public order or disruption in the maintenance of services and supplies essential to a group,shall be guilty of dereliction of duty.
Wow – how do you prove colourable …
- 20. Power of Central Government in relation to Organised Communal and Targeted Violence.- The occurrence of organised communal and targeted violence shall constitute “internal disturbance” within the meaning of and the Central Government may take such steps in accordance with the duties mentioned thereunder, as the nature and circumstances of the case so requires.
The referernce cited here is Article 355 – which says
Duty of the Union to protect States against external aggression and internal disturbance It shall be the duty of the Union to protect every State against external aggression and internal disturbance and to ensure that the government of every State is carried on in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution
Article 355 of the Constitution is followed by Article 356 – which calls for President’s Rule.
Chapter 4 calls for the setting up of a National Authority for Communal Harmony, Justice & Reparation – I don’t have too much of issue with the idea of the body, except that communal harmony cannot be brought about by a National Authority – it is brought about by equitable policy and ensuring that diverse groups – and India is a country of unimaginable diversity – have equal access & opportunity. What i do have an issue with is the following:
- 31. Functions of the National Authority.- The National Authority shall perform all or any of the following functions, namely:-(a) inquire or investigate, suo motu or upon any information or otherwise received in relation to the:(i) occurrence or likely occurrence of offences of communal and targeted violence in the manner prescribed by rules under this Act;(ii) negligence in the prevention of communal and targeted violence by public servants.(b) receive and collect information on:(i) any acts that indicate a build up by State or non-state actors of offences under this Act;(ii) any form of communication, propaganda, mobilisation or the activities of persons, which may promote enmity or hatred against groups.(c) entertain appeals against decisions of the State Assessment Committee in relation to non-inclusion of names of persons under section 98.(d) issue advisories and make recommendations, in relation to clause (a) above and section 32, to State and non-state actors;(e) frame, in consultation with the Central Government, schemes for relief, reparation and restitution of all persons entitled under section 90 including those registered under section 98;(f) frame, in consultation with the Central Government, guidelines in relation to the prevention and control of communal and targeted violence;(g) receive regular reports at least once every quarter on incidents, outbreaks and patterns of communal and targeted violence from all State Authorities constituted under this Act;(h) visit, under intimation to the State Government, any relief camp under the control of the State Government, where persons registered under section 98 are lodged to review the living conditions of such persons;(i) visit, under intimation to the Central Government or the State Government, any jails or any other institution under the control of the Central Government or the State Government, as the case may be, where persons are detained or lodged for the purposes of inquiry or investigation into any offence under this Act;(j) observe proceedings in court in relation to any offence punishable under this Act either through Members of the State Authority or by appointing independent observers;(k) intervene in any proceeding, involving any allegation of communal and targeted violence pending before a court, with approval of such court;(l) such other functions that it may consider necessary for the preservation of communal harmony and prevention and control of communal and targeted violence.
Wonderful – and why do we have the Parliament, Cabinet, Judiciary, State Governments, Police, Bureaucracy .. shall we disband all of them and hand over power to the National Authority ?
And, if you think that this is bad – check out the powers of the National Authority :
- 33. Powers of the National Authority.- (1) The National Authority in the fulfillment of its objectives and in furtherance of its functions shall have the following powers, namely:-(a) requisitioning information from the:(i) Central government, any State government or concerned Union Territory or any of their officers or departments; or(ii) non-state actors;(b) appointing any person to observe, gather facts and information, inquire on its behalf;(c) issue directions to State Authorities in relation to the conduct of any inquiry.Provided that any direction issued by the National Authority to any State Authority shall be binding on the State Authority.
I can see a whole bunch of States standing up and screaming, violation of Federal Compact …
- 41. Statutory Information.- (1) It shall be the duty of any District Magistrate or Police Commissioner having knowledge or information of patterns and incidents of outbreaks of communal and targeted violence or anticipating any of these, to report to the National Authority in writing without any delay.(2). All reports received by the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Home Departments of all State Governments, and District Magistrates relating to communal and targeted violence, build-up and possibilities thereof and advisories related therein shall be sent to the National Authority without any delay.
lovely – combined this with the dereliction of duty clause, every time someone sneezes – you are going to have a despatch sent to the National Authority saying ‘riot’.
Chapter 5 deals with State Authorities that report to the National Authority.
Chapter 6 deals with Investigation, Prosecution and Trial – and the setting up of Special Public Prosecutors and to appoint designated judges
chapter 7 deals with Relief, Reparation and Restitution
I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind supporting this Bill – it is draconian, goes against the principles of Federalism and deeply flawed. Between this and the Jan Lok Pal Bill – with all their good intentions – they are going to destroy the Republic of India….
A riot is about hate, murder, arson, rape, and violence – while you may not be able to legislate hate, the rest are under its purview – apply the laws that exist. Don’t create new super agencies with a concentration of power.
Brilliant. I have read a few blogs and commented on several of them on the CVB. Yours perhaps is the most elaborate and detailed exposition I have come across. It is heartening to note that there are intellects like you amongst others, who are also feeling the heat of how badly a CVB in a form envisaged to come out shortly can damage the fabric of our nation with its partisan and predominantly pro-minority content. It can be widely interpreted and subverted by patronizing points of power who may want to misuse it to their benefit.
CVB in its current format should be rejected outrightly. If not it will pave the way for another street movement, a theme of protest that is becoming more and more popular now.
Thank you!
thank you – i found my self going hotter and hotter under the collar with every clause i read … i felt the need to take it apart on its own silliness ..
this is not pro minority. it only thinks it is pro minority. India is a diverse nation of minorities. we see 80% of India is Hindu -but even the Hindus aren’t a monolithic mass… neither, are Muslims. what happens if the Ahmediyaas are murdered by the Sunnis or the Iyengars by the Iyers … which minority ?
Very factually countered the bill, my observation
1. terming BJP as communal – (excuse me, if it seems as de-focussing, but its not) – But people has to shed this idea of defining certain party as communal. There has been more then 15 instances of communal riots under certain political party who is leading part of ruling alliance of India. I take serious objection of stating BJP as communal, even indirectly
2. The act also mention single and spontaneous act against the group, shall also be dealt with POCV Act – this is most dangerous part – Imagine a group of teenagers playing a cricket and has tiny tiff which is dragged in to minor argument, and it happens to be one of the receiving member turns out to be a certain minority community – So will NAC be still applied
3. Will the linguistic/religious minority be considered of a place where act is committed or from where the people belongs
As community appearing to be majority in most of the states, happens to minority in certain states. Also In cities there are community concentrated area’s, what happens if a person from majority is been roughed up in minority concentrated are of city, will the definition of group change according to the places or it is as defined by NAC.
4. Rest of the topic i agree with
hi . thank you
a) fair enough – no. i didnt’ want to get into a cong v/s bjp debate on this one. i felt it would just be very tangential
2) yes – i agree ..
3) Mumbai will go bananas – it is a city full of minoriites. even the Marathi speakers form only 40%.
Come on. I have no bias towards a party, but you surely cannot give misleading statistics. Riots happening 15 times under a certain party’s rule which covered almost like 50 years over the last 65 years doesn’t make a party communal in nature. The party plays religion based vote bank politics, but doesn’t have any public community specific agenda.
But you cannot but call a party communal when its election agenda contains specific demands for a community e.g. making of the mandir.
Now whether the word communal has become synonymous with communal violence is a different debate. But lets not play around the obvious community bias of BJP please. For all your PR spin, please respect the intelligence of others at least to this level. 🙂
Well statistics are not at all misleading and if u want details, I can certainly share it. But i guess that is not ur main contention, hence will leave it until u demand the same.
As far as when discussed communal – I was not discussing communal violence, and to me communal party is one which tries to woo citizens of certain community only to play vote bank politics. Seeking a temple, how can you term it to be communal, even when court findings tell, it was a temple earlier. Pre empting the verdict and demanding temple, by no way means communal.
Now coming back to Other parties, lately motivated statement are given by national secretary of certain political party to woo so called minority community fot state election in 2012, where international terrorist death and other national tragedy were been used.
This has been a habit of pseudo secular, who have no depth in their thinking and speaks what few vested interest people wants them to speak without any knowledge.
For any further discussion – u can mail me at jemin.p@gmail.com, for i dont want to dilute the POCV blog of Harini
Hey I think we are diverting from the real topic, but i can not hold back myself on the issue of Mandir demand from a specific party. Well for those who think that Mandir should not be built on the disputed land….my sincere question to them is why the land is disputed when we have clear sign (and even proved) that there was Mandir…..just because some people from a particular religion have claimed for the land……For these people dare to go to Mecca or Vatican City and ask for a temple to be built there…..will they ever care for you….and say the land is now disputed with new claimant on it…huh they are not going to stand you for a second….So why are we.
why being communal or religious is bad ? You accuse BJP of communal politics favouring Hindus but the world knows that congress thrives on its muslim vote bank and muslims have held their vote as a bait and congress swallows that bait each and every time. I live in Moradabad (U.P) with considerable muslim population mostly illiterate because a single household has 5 to 10 childrens but not the means of supporting it (one such family lives close to my house) so the only thing these people know is their religion, so if the imam stands with azaruddin in his election campaigns then these illiterate people blindly vote for azaruddin and this is the scenario in the whole country and congress knows it and utilizes it to the fullest, samajvadi party knows it too and utilizes it to the fullest but these parties are not accused of communal behaviour then why BJP’s advocasy of Hindus is termed communal ? We are a nation with 81% hindu population so why is it hard to believe and digest that their exists a party for Hindus. Besides Muslims have insecurities about their welfare in India and congress thrives on that and this bill is just to pamper and cement their muslim vote bank. Just like congress scrapped POTA when it came in to power in 2004, so will the BJP annul this PCTV bill when it comes back in to power, the nation desperately needs a change from congress they are looting the nation’s money and bringing anti-secular and anit-constitutional legislatures to serve their own interests of staying in power inspite of history’s biggest corruption scandels.
Though ur talking like the experts u abhore !
ur talking some sense…more legislation is not a solution to bad legislation or might i say bad or selective implementation of law
especially while dealing with people and communal issues.
The bill is a blatent attempt by the gora baba to appease or win over the muslim minority in upbihar in upcoming elections
though to be frank i wouldn’t mind a jan lokpal but it finally boils down not to the draft but the final draft or bill draft for that matter.
Why ? because jan lok pal hopefully wont be a cog of the corrupt system propagated by ur favorite party right since the time of Nehru … Remember there was corruption in Nehruvian times and Nehru didnt hang anyone by the nearest lamp pole
lol 🙂
people who start riots and take part in riots need to face action , i am not sure a separate law is going to help that…
Yes on action , there are sufficient laws in the cpc, the centre has laws directing state govts to act too..
The problem is not the laws or the apparent loopholes but the sad bit of things getting stuck in courts for decades on end.
This govt is more interested in protecting its fat cat politicians and the amt of spg and police cover inept politicians get is a major drain on countrys resources, It is selective about implementation based on religion and vote bank potential .. no wonder the parliament attacker is cooling heels at taxpayers cost, and madni got ayurvedic massages
What we need is accountability of the judiciary, which live royally in british era bungalows, enjoy luxurious lives at taxpayers cost, but do nothing about the mountain of pending cases.
Very nice. All opposing views valid.
thank you 🙂
Your opposition is too flawed if not as flawed as this bill. First of all it is really shocking that you talk about corruption and communal violence in the same breath as if they are two sides of the same coin. There is tremendous corruption in Tamil Nadu but it is one of the most communally harmonious state.
Corruption is an administrative issue, and communal violence goes beyond that. Just to point out on point number 4,5,6,7 and 8 just to summarize, history tells you and this is across the world, that any violence targeted on specific race,caste or religion was conducted by the state. Holocaust would not have taken place if the entire administrative and law enforcement officials did not participate in the gruesome act, the police helped the Nazis to hunt down jews wherever they were present. Why go so far…It is a open fact now that the genocide in Gujarat could have been avoided if the police had decided to act, they did not because they were instructed to do so by the state government.
I dont know how can anyone who claims one as secular take this communal violence bill with a pinch of salt. Especially when a country like India has one of the largest minorities groups living whom we have betrayed time and again. You friend was right, you seldom seem like a secular. In fact it is easy to deal with likes of Sangh Parivar atleast we know they hate the minorities, it is so called “secular” people like you who are the greatest threat to secularism itself
thank you
am not comparing corruption and communal violence.
am comparing the desire to create large, monolithic – bodies to deal with both ..
i am not for keeping quiet on riots – but, believe that the existing rules and laws need to be applied.
there is no point in keeping silent on silliness – and agreeing with it, because you are broadly on the same side as people proposing the bill. if it is flawed, it is flawed… dogma is a bad idea in such cases 🙂
“Hate” crime legislation is a problem everywhere. In one sense almost all violent crimes are a product of “hate”, of the aggressor towards the victim. To classify some crimes as “hate” crimes and some as not is inconsistent. Furthermore “hate” crimes punish one’s thoughts and beliefs. A murders B and is given some punishment. C murders D because D is an “other”. If C is given a greater punishment then we are effectively adding a punishment for C’s belief against D as an “other”. So just hating the “other” is a crime.
But then again India does not have the robust protection afforded to speech and thought as does the US (with the First Amendment, but then again the US is also sliding towards criminalizing “hate” crime).
As for States’ rights, India has never had a robust federal tradition. From 1950 onwards, India has been a federation in name only with the Central govt retaining draconian powers such as Art 356.
And frankly the idea that States have rights is repugnant. People have rights which constrain the baheviour of the State (whether at the state or the national level).
I may have missed it but have you explained in your post why the legislation promotes “guilt by association” and “guilty until proven innocent”?
look i don’t have an issue with classifying something as a hate crime. but – the problem arises if it is only applied to the ‘minority’. in India – who is the minority ? if a UP urdu speakers group in UP riots against Tamil speakers who are also Hindus in the state – who is majority and who is a minority. it works nicely when you are talking race – that is visible. India is a nation of minorities – every one of us is part of a minority grouping. we may belong to a majority grouping as well…
On free speech – india does’t have those protections as the US Does- there is already censorship that deals with ‘offending sentiment’ or ‘sedition’ or ‘defamation’ – so i am not sure about a separate provision.
Yes – and this makes it worse
Individual have rights – i absolutely agree with that…
i think i have – but check the clauses that come to donations or even belonging !!
You say “look i don’t have an issue with classifying something as a hate crime”
But that is an important issue. If you classify something as a hate crime, on what basis do you do so? You have to identify some sentiment/thought/belief which you think is wrong and must be criminally punished.
If one things that existing laws against crimes are inadequate to deal with “hate” crimes then such laws must be strengthened rather than criminalise thought
and it is wonderful to have the “Prisoner of Zenda” on this blog 🙂 have been a fan since i was a kid 🙂
Gargi,
I am a bit disturbed by your frequent posts against having “civil society” members in the Jan lokpal bill. you have a similar issue against the NAC. Doesn’t the fact that in both these groups, there are people representatives too make any difference to you? I am no fan of sonia but isn’t she a people’s representative at least? There might be hazare and his gang in the jan lokpal bill, but some of the most prominent ministers of this government are also in it!
Nobody is handing over reigns to these people. The bills formulated are only drafts.
The only difference from other laws is that instead of law drafts being made open for public discussions, here the “public” is involved in the drafting step as well.
Nothing else changes – the bills will still need cabinet approval, the bill will still be put up before public for feedback, the bill will still be passed in the parliament.
So what is your exact issue in all this? If a bill has some fundamental flaws, like the communal violence bill seems to be, it will get stuck in all the right places, like it is now. What is wrong in getting a wider range of experts to give their inputs in the bill? Doesn’t the fact that there is a conflict of interest with having so many representatives formulating a bill to police themselves bother you? At least for the Jan lokpal issue, doesn’t the dismal track record of the last 40 years bother you. Don’t you think it merits an exception?
Are you being too idealistic in this opposition to self-appointed civil society involvement in the jan lokpal issue at least?
my problem with civil society is that they are not accountable.
I have no issues with Mrs. Sonia Gandhi – she is an elected representative of the people. if she makes a mistake or a set of mistakes, people will take her to task.
with the rest – there is no such provision. The NAC is not answerable to any known body …
i don’t have an issue with the idea of a NAC perse – a bunch of well read, well intentioned individuals who advice politicians on a variety of public policy issue. My disagreement with them occurs on two levels a) their intolerance towards any dissent b) the fact that they are not accountable.
The bill’s most fundamental flaw is to assume that only minorities suffer in riots. which brings me to the question who is a minority. if Sunni Muslims kill Bohri Muslims- is it a communal riot. If Iyers kill Iyengars – is it a communal riot ? if in a minority area of a city – either linguistic or religious – a majority community family gets murdered – is it communal ? the bill is discriminatory. Murder is murder yaar – kya farak padta hai whether you pray 5 times a day, don’t pray or speak Tulu or Banla …
gargi is she ever accountable? is nac accountable
the bunch of well read, well intentioned individuals are making more mess then good for india in the long run…
Actually it makes all the difference whether you pray 5 times a day or not. Compensation to riot victims are based on this very fact. And if you didn’t know that already, you haven’t been following up on these sort of things.
This bill holds the majority to be responsible. It doesn’t say it is against Hindus per se. It would be against Muslims in Kashmir, which would actually help Hindu pandits. It would be against Chritians in North Eastern states, which would again help Hindus. In other states where Hindus are in majority, it would benefit Muslims and Christians.
So why are Hindus against it? This bill is required so that India doesn’t become a fascist right wing state just like Germany was under Hitler. Poor Germans wholeheartedly supported Hitler thinking they were being patriotic. Minorities like Jews, Communists, Muslims and non-denomintional Christians were all killed by right wing Nazi. And look where it took them. For centuries to come, Germany has been vilified.
Do you really want India to be like that?
Regarding Federal crap, what do you sincerely want to see: a very weak Central Govt. unable to intervene when people are getting killed and maimed in a State just becoz it has to respect the “Federal setup”?
Over 3000 Sikhs lost their lives in the riots that happened during the aftermath of Indiraji’s death. Are the guilty punished yet?
Hindus keep saying Godhra train accident was started by Muslims. Tehelka on an eight month undercover sting operation conclusively proved how right wing Hindus planned this false flag attack just so that Modi could teach Muslims a lesson. He took a clue from the “other major false flag” operation that had just happened!
Watch the youtube videos where Babu Bajrangi rues how he couldn’t kill more Muslims. He says his job was unfinished, how he would’ve killed 50,000 Muslims if he were freed from jail.
Just ask a few questions to yourselves:
1) Qui Bono? Who benefits? We all know Who really benefitted from this most.
If Godhra train accident was a pre-planned attack done by Muslims, why did they wait for 10 years after the demolition of the Babri Masjid? What triggered them to do it now?
2) How did the VHP leader Prahlad escape from the train? He used gas cutters and cut through the window. Who carries gas cutters on a train journey? Did he anticipate an attack? or did he plot them?
3) Majority of victims were poor women who didn’t even ticets on them. The tickets were all handled by Prahlad. Why? Did someone just wanted a lot of nameless, faceless, expendable victims?
4) India is a place where if there is a cycle accident scores of people will gather. When you see a train burning you can expect hundreds of people to collect. What makes you think that all Muslims that gathered there that day were rioting? A lot of victims were saved by these Muslim bystanders who were later branded as rioters.
5) When a few bomb blasts can kill scores of people, why would about 1000 Muslims try to burn down a train to kill 57 Hindus? That would be a very, very, very ineffcient attack, don’t you think?
THINK Hindus, think! Why doesn’t Hindus want terrorists like Babu Bajrangi to be punished?
Over 2000 Muslims lost their lives in Godhra riot. Many Hindu Sr. Police officials have NOW come forward to testify against Narendra Modi. Even USA branded him as a terrorist and denied him visa. That ban stills stands. But in India he is branded as a saviour by Ambanis and Tatas! So why doesn’t Hindus want terrorists like Narendra Modi to be punished? What message are they sending out? That might is right? That is a very destructive message to send. Don’t you think?
In a separate incident Dr.Graham Staines, the Australian Christian missionary, along with his two sons Philip (aged 10) and Timothy (aged 6) were brutally burnt alive by Hindus. Riots & rapes happened in Kandhamal. Many nuns were raped.
Don’t you want these to be prevented? or are we just gonna be happy to have a “Federal” setup?
Riots and communal violence breed terrorism, not the other way around. When did serial bombing culture start in India? Have you EVER heard of serial bomb blasts before Mumbai riots?
Mumbai riots started in Dec 1991 and continued unabated in 1992. But nothing happened till the serial bomb blasts took place. An unexploded bomb was found outside the gate of Matosree, the home of Bal Thackeray. The next day “Saamna” came out with the article saying “Hindus and Muslims are bhai-bhai and we should live together in India”. So it took some bombs to drive some sense into him? or was he scared witless?
And then what happened? Chaggan Bhujbal promised he would bring Bal Thackeray to justice for instigating violence during the riots. Apparently there’s a loop hole in the law which states that if a person isn’t chargesheeted in 7 years, the law can’t nail him anymore. Guess what? That’s exactly what happened!
Chaggan waited for the very last day when Bal could be booked by law, he “invited” Bal Thackeray to the police station, and did NOT chargesheet him. Bal spent a couple of hours at the police station and by the time the 7 year limit was up. Bal went scott free. Chaggan kept his word. Muslims were fooled once again. That was a win-win situation for Hindus and a travesty of Indian justice.
Ashwathama was killed again!
Everything in this world has some inherent flaws in it. Government will never implement the existing laws to punish people who are associated with them. Public agitation has compelled them to take some action and now it’s high time that some major changes should be made in our constitution.
Jan lokpal will be accountable to the supreme court. A person can file a petition against the lokpal whenever he/she wants.
Great analysis.
Quite honestly, I am of the opinion that this bill has been introduced for 3 major purposes!
1) Get Muslim votes further in 2014.
2) Declare RSS, VHP and possibly BJP as terrorist organizations.
3) Destory the structure of Indian society by creating laws discriminating and making the MAJORITY always culpable. Frankly a new law is not needed, the existing laws are good enough. It’s only their implementation which is required.
Most of the points said above is also true of TADA and POTA acts and was supported by communal parties. Though these are against the basic principles of non discrimination and violates the rights of individuals and over rides the basis of the criminal justice system and says “guilty by association” and ‘guilty until proved innocent’, we supported those laws so that we can eliminate social evils such as terrorism.
But the biggest social evil in India is communal violence. It is far bigger than terrorism. More millions of people have died in communal violence than in terrorism.There were more communal violence attacks than terrorist attacks. The terrorist attacks can be counted in fingers [in tens and less than hundred], the communal violence attacks are in thousands. More property has been destroyed in communal violence and many thousands of human rights violations have occurred. Home less refugees in communal violence are in millions. Yet there is far far less justice is done in communal violence cases, in fact no justice is done. At most of the times even the cases are not resisted at all because the police it self is either communal or under political pressure .So communal violence is the biggest menace ever.
Compare this statistics of thousand of communal violence attacks and with the number people punished. The number victims rehabilitated and compensated. Sixty years of communal violence cases proves that there are lot of political or communal or evil elements in police , executive power and law till judiciary, which makes it difficult or almost impossible to get the justice for the victims of the violence for minorities. That is why a special law is needed for biggest menace -communal violence on the same lines as terrorist laws.
Also looking at so many thousands of communal violence incidents it will be very clear attacks and violation will be by majority groups. In fact this is so in more than 95 percent of the cases. For less than 5 % of the cases normal law is enough. Experience of 60yeras and thousands of communal violence attacks is enough proof that hardly hit in communal violence are minority groups without help, without aid, , without support , without compensation,without justice and without any rights.
More ever this law is against evil and communal elements[communal terrorists] in the society. If they belong to majority group should not they be punished. Irrespective of the group they should be punished. this law can be used to punish evil elements in the majority groups as they have more influence and normal law can be used to punish evil elements in minority groups.
Those [communal parties and their supporters] who are in favor of terrorist laws and against communal violence laws hypocrites.
ASI, you have written same comments many times with different names.
Your opinion is totally illogical, irrational and biased in favor of the minority. Law and privileges must be same for all groups regardless of religion, language, region, etc. Why should any group be given special concession, reservation, protection or privilege? Isn’t it doing gross injustice to other groups?
Most of the riots in India has been initiated by muslims. Be it 1947 direct action riot, 1992 Mumbai riot, 2002 Godhra/Gujarat riot, or 2010 Deganga (W. Bengal) riot or Kashmir riot or any other riot. What to say about India, muslims are the initiators of riots in every part of the world. They can never remain in peace and harmony with any other religious community of this world. What to say about living with other religious community, even in muslim countries, they keep killing other muslims groups, sunni killing shia, wahabi killing ahmadi, etc.
Most secular people of India are none but sycophants of muslims who want to convert India to an islamic country in which Hindus and other non-muslims would be in the status of subservient to muslims. All the Hindu members of NAC are big sycophants of muslims. Congress, left parties, all regional parties and even BJP is full of sycophants of muslims. Secularism is worldwide misinterpreted today as doing sycophancy of muslims, blindly obeying and worshiping muslims, yielding to the blackmailing and threatening of muslims, giving more and more unjustified/illegal rights, reservations and concessions to muslims at the cost of other religious groups, etc.
This nasty and fully satanic PCTV bill 2011 by UPA is an attempt to make Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains etc slaves of muslims. Hindus and other non-muslims must wake up and protest this bill strongly in order to protect their rights and freedom, else be ready to act as servants of muslims. Moreover, politicians of UPA and members of NAC must be taught a lesson for drafting and proposing such a mischievous and treacherous bill.
what you have to say about terrorist laws are not they discriminating and anti India and anti human rights?
Also it is easy to say that this law is bad . But what is your solution for the biggest menace ever – communal violence for the issues I raised above?
Most of the points said above is also true of TADA and POTA acts and was supported by communal parties. Though these are against the basic principles of non discrimination and violates the rights of individuals and over rides the basis of the criminal justice system and says “guilty by association” and ‘guilty until proved innocent’, we supported those laws so that we can eliminate social evils such as terrorism.
But the biggest social evil in India is communal violence. It is far bigger than terrorism. More millions of people have died in communal violence than in terrorism.There were more communal violence attacks than terrorist attacks. The terrorist attacks can be counted in fingers [in tens and less than hundred], the communal violence attacks are in thousands. More property has been destroyed in communal violence and many thousands of human rights violations have occurred. Home less refugees in communal violence are in millions.
justice for communal violence victims
Yet there is far far less justice is done in communal violence cases, in fact no justice is done. At most of the times even the cases are not registered at all because the police it self is either communal or under political pressure .So communal violence is the biggest menace ever.
stastistics
Compare this statistics of thousand of communal violence attacks and with the number people punished. The number victims rehabilitated and compensated. Sixty years of communal violence cases proves that there are lot of political or communal or evil elements in police , executive power and law till judiciary, which makes it difficult or almost impossible to get the justice for the victims of the violence for minorities. That is why a special law is needed for the biggest menace ever – the communal violence on the same lines as terrorist laws.
Also looking at so many thousands of communal violence incidents it will be very clear that the most of the attacks and violation will be by majority groups. In fact this is so in more than 95 percent of the cases. For less than 5 % of the cases normal law is enough. History of 60 years and experience of thousands of communal violence attacks is enough proof that hardly hit in communal violence are minority groups without help, without aid, , without support , without compensation,without justice and without any rights.
More ever this law is against evil and communal elements [communal terrorists] in the society. If they belong to majority group should not they be punished. Irrespective of the group they should be punished. this law can be used to punish evil elements in the majority groups as they have more influence and normal law can be used to punish evil elements in minority groups.
Double Standards
What you have to say about terrorist laws. Are not they discriminating and anti India and anti human rights? Those [communal parties and their supporters] who are in favor of terrorist laws and against communal violence laws are hypocrites. this is just thier double standards.
To makes states accountable
History tells that any violence targeted on specific race,caste or religion was conducted by the state. It is a open fact now that the genocide in Gujarat could have been avoided if the police had decided to act, they did not because they were instructed to do so by the state government. So the qusetion is how do you make the states acccountable in these cases.
Government will never implement the existing laws to punish people who are associated with them. And there are many obstacles and loopholes in the existing laws. The are many crimes commited in communal violence for which there are no proper laws. Also there are lot of influence of political or communal or evil elements in police , executive power and law and even judiciary, which makes it difficult to make use of the existing laws especially by minority groups. Public agitation has compelled the goverment to take some action and now it’s high time that some major changes should be made in our constitution. thought it is too late. this should have done decdes before.
When we say that this law is bad let us know what is the solution for the biggest menace ever.
Some thing must be done to eradicate both communal violence and corruption and indeed special laws are needed.
Most of the points said above is also true of TADA and POTA acts and was supported by communal parties. Though these are against the basic principles of non discrimination and violates the rights of individuals and over rides the basis of the criminal justice system and says “guilty by association” and ‘guilty until proved innocent’, we supported those laws so that we can eliminate social evils such as terrorism.
But the biggest social evil in India is communal violence. It is far bigger than terrorism. More millions of people have died in communal violence than in terrorism.There were more communal violence attacks than terrorist attacks. The terrorist attacks can be counted in fingers [in tens and less than hundred], the communal violence attacks are in thousands. More property has been destroyed in communal violence and many thousands of human rights violations have occurred. Home less refugees in communal violence are in millions.
justice for communal violence victims
Yet there is far far less justice is done in communal violence cases, in fact no justice is done. At most of the times even the cases are not registered at all because the police it self is either communal or under political pressure .So communal violence is the biggest menace ever.
stastistics
Compare this statistics of thousand of communal violence attacks and with the number people punished. The number victims rehabilitated and compensated. Sixty years of communal violence cases proves that there are lot of political or communal or evil elements in police , executive power and law till judiciary, which makes it difficult or almost impossible to get the justice for the victims of the violence for minorities. That is why a special law is needed for the biggest menace ever – the communal violence on the same lines as terrorist laws.
Also looking at so many thousands of communal violence incidents it will be very clear that the most of the attacks and violation will be by majority groups. In fact this is so in more than 95 percent of the cases. For less than 5 % of the cases normal law is enough. History of 60 years and experience of thousands of communal violence attacks is enough proof that hardly hit in communal violence are minority groups without help, without aid, , without support , without compensation,without justice and without any rights.
More ever this law is against evil and communal elements [communal terrorists] in the society. If they belong to majority group should not they be punished. Irrespective of the group they should be punished. this law can be used to punish evil elements in the majority groups as they have more influence and normal law can be used to punish evil elements in minority groups.
Double Standards
What you have to say about terrorist laws. Are not they discriminating and anti India and anti human rights? Those [communal parties and their supporters] who are in favor of terrorist laws and against communal violence laws are hypocrites. this is just thier double standards.
To makes states accountable
History tells that any violence targeted on specific race,caste or religion was conducted by the state. It is a open fact now that the genocide in Gujarat could have been avoided if the police had decided to act, they did not because they were instructed to do so by the state government. So the qusetion is how do you make the states acccountable in these cases.
Government will never implement the existing laws to punish people who are associated with them. And there are many obstacles and loopholes in the existing laws. The are many crimes commited in communal violence for which there are no proper laws. Also there are lot of influence of political or communal or evil elements in police , executive power and law and even judiciary, which makes it difficult to make use of the existing laws especially by minority groups. Public agitation has compelled the goverment to take some action and now it’s high time that some major changes should be made in our constitution. thought it is too late. this should have done decdes before.
When we say that this law is bad let us know what is the solution for the biggest menace ever.
>> Be it Anna Hazare and his bunch of Jan Lok Pal supporters or the NAC and its Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence Bill – the assumption of I know better than you
NAC is appointed by govt. and headed by leader of the elected coalition. It is the right/prerogative of any govt. to appoint/seek input and advice from anyone. And govt. always do. This can’t be compared with IAC. NAC members don’t assume ‘I know better than you’. They are advising as they have asked to provide advice/input by the govt.
>> What happens if the Tamils and the Biharis in Maharashtra riot against each other ? is it a communal riot or is it a friendly skirmish ?
Cases like Tamils and Biharis in Maharashtra etc are cases where neither has any undue disadvantage/discrimination in terms of police/bureaucracy/state machinery taking sides, as well as societal brute ‘majority’. It is not a ‘friendly skirmish’, but can fall under IPC.
>> if there is a riot in Mumbai between a majority community – either linguistic or religious – and a minority community – either linguistic or religious -and I – a minority – cannot get to work for 5 days – have i suffered monetary harm ?
You sure have suffered harm in this case, and can demand whatever compensation and go to courts etc. But that is not a unusual case of special vulnerability that applies only to you, by virtue being specifically targeted, which demand a special/additional/exceptional protection.
>> ok – if we write vehemently against the Khap Panchayats – and let us say that the people rise up against the Khap Panchayat, and maybe beat them up – is it hate propaganda ?
I think there are well defined norms/definitions of what is described as hate-speech, instigation etc as opposed to criticism/attack of ideas, beliefs, systems. It is hate-speech if there is a instigation against people of community. For example, it is not hate-speech to criticize hindu philosophy, but it is hate-speech/hate propaganda to seek to drive away or violate human rights/justice of kashmiri pandits.
>> at the risk of sounding stupid, how do you prove this ?
Well, it can be proven in extreme cases of direct involvement etc, which is perhaps the idea behind the clauses.
>> apply the laws that exist.
There are laws like SC/ST atrocities act, domestic violence act etc which are over and above IPC to deal with unusual conditions or skewed situation of disadvantage of a vulnerable/targeted group. All crimes are bad and there is IPC for that, but if there is evidence of unusual discrimination/disadvantage and societal conditions/behavior, there can be special laws (in so far as those special situations continue to exist). For example, if the SC/ST communities come up very well on par of others and there is no disadvantage anymore, the SC/ST act becomes irrelevant. Same way, if cases of targeted violence with police/bureaucracy/state machinery taking sides etc reduce, this bill will become irrelevant too.
http://arindamchaudhuri.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-06-17T06%3A00%3A00%2B05%3A30&max-results=2
Let me also be very clear in stating that a lot of credit for path breaking policy changes like the Right to Information Act, the NREGA and the Right to Education Act should go to the NAC.
Every Hindu caste is a minority
Every Hindu caste and sub-caste has its unique religious customs and traditions and therefore it is a minority in the national context. The definition of ‘minority’ as appearing in the constitution needs to be amplified to include every Hindu caste and sub-caste. Once that is done, Hindus will welcome the ‘communal violence bill’.
No the BJP is opposing the bill because it does not include hindus in the victims category when a riot happens no matter who started it both the parties are victims to some degree, did the muslims sat like goats while the hindus were violent, NO, they respond with the same or even greator degree of violence and killed hindus in the same way they were being killed but this act does not guarantees rather denies that the hindu victims will get any justice and relief, reparation, restitution and compensation for their loss, this is also the reaason BJP opposes this bill, I think you didn’t read the draft of the bill accurately especially the definitions of victims and groups and also this bill helds the accused “guilty unttill proved innocent” which is counter to our existing judicial system.
The draft bill on prevention of communal and targeted violence (access to justice and repatriations) 2011, proposed by NAC assumes the following.
The Majority community starts a riot against the minorities without any provocation.
Minorities are innocent by default and their living is disturbed by majority “just for the sake of it” because they are the majority in the area.
This result in the following scenario: persons of minority can do any provocative act towards majority. But the persons of majority community should not respond to the provocation and suffer the damage to their ways of life by the minority community.
But what is the ground reality in India regarding Majority community and minority community?
We all should be aware of this “politically incorrect” truth in our society.
The majority community in India is not a homogeneous entity nor does it have a command structure all through the ages by their inherent nature. They are bound only by believes and ways of life that evolved in this country over thousands of years by way of the local culture. It was not established nor spread by any sort of missionary work or conquests by warlords.
Most of the clergies and to a lesser extend the members of minority community does not respect the ways of life of the majority. They claim absolute superiority to their own ways of life and do not show tolerance to the majority’s ways of life.
They go on ridiculing and denigrating the majority way of life and beliefs.
They convert people of majority community by brain washing them with hateful ideas towards the ways of life of the majority community and alluring them with various incentives when they are emotionally susceptible. They are doing this because they are well organized in their religious activities with the utmost aim to recruit maximum number of people to their own community. They are also funded well from their respective counterparts beyond Indian boundaries who want to change the demographics of Indian population to their own favor through religion.
This creates a great imbalance in the majority community’s effort to carry on and sustain their own ways of life and beliefs. The majority community is vulnerable because of its loose and unorganized structure and is crumbling with organized attack by the minority groups which get state protection by virtue of their minority status. It is this lack of respect from the minority community and the realization by the majority community of their own vulnerability and lack of state protection to maintain their own ways of life in their own motherland, which triggers their reaction. This reaction of majority to the covert cultural provocation by minority manifests often in a physically violent form.
We should all understand that it is this loose and unorganized nature of the majority community in India that has allowed all other religions to take roots and flourish here. Minorities should acknowledge and be respectful of this nature of the majority community. They should never try to take advantage of this. Neither should the state in anyway favor them to do so because a change in this delicate social fabric will be detrimental to the basic tolerant nature of the majority community which forms the bedrock of our communal harmony.
The fundamental flaw in this bill is that it attempts to contain the “after effects” whereas it ignores and unfortunately encourage the root cause of communal violence.
Rather than putting off the fire under the pressure cooker to stop the whistle blow, the government is trying to close the pressure vent by loading more weight at its top!!! It can never be a good solution and will only aggravate the final outcome.
Also, if we look at a global perspective in this age of globalization, the majority community in India is a miniscule minority on a global scale. So, it is the responsibility of the government to protect and preserve the way of life of its own people in their own motherland form adverse influence from outside. There will be none to at least sympathize once we ourselves allow our culture to be damaged and eroded by the change of demography in our country.
The only way out for the government is to ensure that nobody can show disrespect to others religious beliefs or try to poach on others to enhance their own community’s numerical strength. That will be the way to address the root cause of the problem that creates communal tension. All other approaches are bound to fail as those will only embolden those forces that are out to poach on the majority community and fatten themselves.
Our country is a big coalition. So, unless all the partners keep the coalition dharma, it will collapse. The duty of the government is to dissuade any force that refuse to keep their own dharma and not in anyway promote their lust.
Please see this simple calculation:
Hindus = 85% of Indian population
There are about 17000 casts and tribes in India. These casts are not united to help each others in times of need.Even the dominant casts are enmical to others. That is the basis of reservation policy in India.
So, what is the average percentage of a homogeneous hindu caste? 85 / 17000 = 0.005%
So, who is the real minority in the real India? The Hindu who are a divided lot or non hindu the homogeneous lot?
Thus this fundamentally flawed bill should be rejected and should be replaced by another one which will address the ground realities of India as pointed out above. Otherwise there will be ample grounds for those who suspect the intent of the people those who are behind this draft bill.
Hindu if we take it a religion is a personal matter not a collective matter. We worship the god in our own personal way of liking. we do not worship the god collectively so individual is a minority iin this countrythat is why we have never been a dominating group. NAC is forcing us to act like that.
It is creating a situation that will make the state to function properly and impartially. The bill will put the state administration under multiple command and thus situation of law and order will further detoriate;
THE INDIAN CONCEPT OF SARVE BHAVANTU SUKHINA SHALL VANISH IF THIS BILL IS PASSED FROM THE INDIAN SOCIETY.
The CVB must be consigned to dustbin. It shakes the very foundations of our constitution, and verily our nation-state. The authors of this nefarious bill must be prosecuted.
Isn’t the bill actually a good idea because minorities will be protected? When a communal riot occurs the main problem is not with the riot itself but with the police men taking sides and the politicians taking advantage of such times. If the policemen can actually be acquitted by a committee or a group isn’t it better? After the 1984 anti-Sikh riots 10 committees were formed by the government to inquire into the matter but none of them were able to reach the crux of the matter and they were eventually dissolved before they could actually complete the entire investigation. The primary suspects were eventually acquitted and not a single police officer out of the 72 who were accused has been punished till date. The communal bill would actually help solve problems like this wouldn’t it?
Another point I’d like to mention is that is a man belonging to a minority group goes to his local police station would he be given the same treatment as he would have been given if this bill was implemented? The communal bill would help solve matters like these where the police is to blame.
I’m only in class 11 and I have to debate on this topic. I have to speak for the topic actually that minorities should be protected and the communal bill implemented…Some inputs would be nice! @ Prashanth K.P.:
how many Hindus, Christians etc are alive in pakistan, bangladesh, afghanistan or the middle east? none, why? becoz they are islamists. but there is an ever increasing population of muslims in India, why? becoz Hindus allowed it. Hindus are tolerant and accepting. but muslims as can be seen world wide are extremists and oppressors. good reason that Hindus only seldom ignite any riots and only when they are irritated to that level where as muslims are the main culprits who start all the riots not only in India but across the world. lets take this instance that a muslim guy threatens yr family to marry u. when yr father denies, he along with other fellow muslim-Christians lodges a complaint against yr father and mother that he’s been married to u and that yr parents have abducted u becoz they hate muslims and have threatened him of death. so yr parents are booked and locked up without a second thought. now they need to prove their innocence in the matter. but no Hindu will turn up for help as a witness becoz he/she too can serve punishment in the jail on a complaint lodged by a minority group. finally yr parents will be sent to jail and then u’ll be left behind alone with no one else left to protect u as dearly as yr parents wud. u’ll be taken by the muslims, raped and converted. u’ll be lost forever and that’ll be the end of story. yr parents will be released after many years in jail and all they cud then do is curse the PCTV bill and it’s creators. it might sound a story to u but the same is being lived thru by Hindus in muslim countries ever since. but when i look at yr reasons. i start to believe that u for one well deserves that sort of future. u should really go down along with the ones who born the utter idiot like u.
Sir, ur entire comment was based on the age old perception that muslims are at the epicentre of all riots in india. but the picture is different. there is a well published notion in defense, never to corner the enemy completely. else, he will have no choice but to retaliate. now try applying the same notion at muslims. imagine a muslim locality surrounded by hundreds of hardliners, shouting ‘Babur ki auladon, bhago Pakistan ya Kabristan’,threatning them with dire consequences if they dont stay shut. threatning to rape their daughters,sisters,forcing them to shave and give up on skull cap. will they wait for prophet(PBUH) to decend and help them out? unfortunately for them, not evn the administration comes to their rescue. what will they do in sch a situation? shud they uphold the law of and, sty shut till they witness their people butchered and thrown away ?
I never have known that some people may come up with such a nonsense. what do they think of India…a bunch of Cows and goats.
Why many are opposing this bill(communial violence bill) can be easy to understand, because this bill is flawed. But for those who are supporting this bill they have to understand the intensions of cunning brains behind this. Look at how some members of this NAC demanding that only minorities especially muslims be included as a group in this bill. From their own statements it is clear that the linguistic minority and SC/ST were added later. Those who framed this bill knew that if they come up with this bill only with muslims as a group it wont be supported. Therefore they added SC/ST and linguistic minorities in the definition of the group. Now anyone can see the intention of those who are behind this bill. This is addressed only against the Hindus. Come on politicians, indians are not kids to not understand this simple ploy. Make sensible laws not flaws!
My friend I do not know if you are a secular person or just trying to show that you are secular by opposing this bill. The definition of secularism in India is nothing but hindu bashing or hatred towards hindus. If you read this bill carefully you will realize that it is pre decided as to who is guilty and who is the victim. Now for eg. if a woman from minority community is raped that is a serious offence under this act but if a woman from majority community is raped than it is not a serious offence and the culprit goes scot free as the majority community cannot be a victim. There are many other things which I can show from this bill, infact every clause is biased and targeted at troubling the hindus who are a majority. My friend please remember that our country is secular because of us the hindus OR you may please show me a single muslim nation which is secular. It is only in India that people like you full of hatred for the majority community can stay prosper and still carry out hate propaganda against the hindus. If you see the terrorists of India they are all muslims. Of course the Pseudo secularists like you have tried to paint a picture if right wing terrorism but we all know that the picture has been created by you people to divert attention from islamic terrorism. Anyway tghe likes of you do hindu bashing and get rewarded for doing that from the likes of Sonia Gandhi. So please carry on.
why don’t u leave India and live among yr Christian brotherhood in the middle east? there u’ll learn the difference between being a minority in India and a non muslim minority in a muslim nation. India os secular becoz Hindus are secular. u minorities are severely orthodox and even yr westerner counterparts hate u for that. u shud listen to what Christian defense leagues of the world call u i.e. Indian Christians are actually cross wearing muslims. there will be no such bill or u get ready to face the most violent retaliation ever in the history of mankind. don’t dare giving lectures on secularism and democracy. we Hindus as a majority supported it in India. yr Christian siblings in pakistan and bangladesh are already either dead or converted. shut up troll.
Where can one get the draft bill in full?
Nice work thr Gargi…
Im a Software Engineer. I just downlaoded and read this bill but couldent understand much but thanx to u for xpressing the facts in such a simple manner.
On my way to office some members belonging to Hindu Group were dispatching the pomplets of this law. I read it. The whole theme was “Wake-up Hindus ! This law is to kill You” kinda stuffs.
The killer points it said were: 1) That this bill assumes that the communal offences are mostly commited by “Hindus”
2) That it assumes that it assumes the person commitng the offense is assumed to be Hindu and victim is always assumed to be of Minority
3)This law keeps the name of complainer secreat this will give opportunity to ny1 to file a complaint without any base ! is this true ?
4) In the states of Kashmir whr Hindus are in minority it will still be assumed tat the crime can be commited by Hindu only.
I just want to ask is thr any truth in these points or are they just spread to xagarate the things ?
I compared them with the laws in tat bill but could not judge it.
It will be vary helpful for me and to others who have same questions, if u could address it
Thank You!
no ones asking for yr support mr soft engineer. it’s the blindly secular weakness of u along with other secularists is why today we are arguing bout this PCTV bill. Hindus like you are a bigger threat to our community and existence than this bill, muslims or congress. u r the utter cowards who flaunt secularism while living in the dominating areas of yr religious community. why don’t u live among the muslim community if u r that secular? that’s becoz when ever communal riots break out, u cowards hide in the comfortable confines of yr communities. when the peace is re established u come out of yr hide outs and begin barking yr one sided blind secularism again. u r not a secularist but a genetically engineered west aping low life form. we Hindus don’t need any help from handicaps who can’t look around even with their eyes open. u just do yr filthy stuff as always. secular retards!!
In the history of the world this is nothing new.
During world war 2 the germans had the Same National Authority wirh the same powers————They called it the SchultzStaffe —- the SS.
what’s there to debate? if all u cud do is argue then it’s better that u people get yrselves ready for the oncoming wrath of minorities on Hindus in India. it’s time to take the war to congress and their luved ones. if u can’t do that then better prepare for yr own extinction. i know many of us would rather use the escape route to the west as always and wud prefer living there as 3rd class citizen rather than fighting here for our own good and protecting our sovereignty. this country or any country never relies on spineless skunks. so thanks but no thanks.
“A friend called me up and asked me when I changed sides and moved from being Secular to being Communal. I was zapped. And hurt. I haven’t been brought up to be communal. I detest communal thought, behaviour and attitudes. I have always spoken out agaisnt them – and yet, my opposition to the proposed bill was getting me labelled as Communal.”
do u even know what secularism is in reality? i can’t believe it, just becoz somebody called u communal, u were shocked and hurt? what’s wrong in being communal and protecting the community? wud u like to be a Hindu in pakistan or a muslim in India? why? u’ve been against communal people all yr time? why? only becoz of yr community, this country is still secular and democratic otherwise muslims wud’ve made it a sharia ruled state. yr blind one sided secularism is what yr so-called driends in the minority use as a weapon against u. u can’t take hard stance for yr own good becoz that’ll shred yr identity as a great secular Hindu amongst yr minority friends and other secular retard Hindus. why is it that none of yr muslim-christian friend is talking against the bill, do theyt all believe that Hindus are rioters? are they secular now? what if we take out the Hindus and put Christians there? will yr christian friend still support it along with muslims? stop being controlled by this silly secular fashion. once these muslims reach their target population in any area in the non muslim world, all their non muslim friends become their enemy. islam permits the rape, murder and torture of non muslims so as to either convert them or kill them. it’s all the work of god for them and thus not a sin. i don’t know how u secular Hindus can protect them and oppose yr own community? wait for this bill and then u’ll understand the full context..