Because of only one man, and that man is Dr.Manmohan Singh
Elections 2009 is not about televised debates, it is not about grandstanding, it is not about security, and it is not about black money. It is a level playing field for all parties on these issues, as far as i am concerned. If the UPA faced 26/11, the NDA had the Parliament attacks; if the Congress has the Sikh riots, the BJP has Gujarat, if the Congerss is accused of black money, the BJP has the Pramod Mahajan issue.
So what does it boil down to? why does Manmohan Singh get my vote, even if he is not contesting :
…because it is the economy stupid ! and there is no other person I trust more to navigate us out of the financial whirlpool created by Wall Street greed and White House stupidity.
The trioka of Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha and Arun Shourie – the best BJP brains in economics – don’t really inspire confidence. They didn’t when they handled the finance/disinvestment portfolios in the last Government, and they didn’t when they were in opposition. Their flip flop policies are not what the country needs at this time. The only BJP person who comes across as a competent manager of the economy – tho’ not at Dr.Singh’s level – is Mr. Narendra Modi, but his politics scare me. I am terrified of fascists – and he is one.
I would not vote for the communists if you held a gun to my head – seriously. It is better to die instantly than to have West Bengal happen to you.
That leaves Mayawati. I don’t think that she knows what her economic policies are.
Samajwadi Party does not exist for me. It stands for crooks, terrorists and murderers.
So that leaves me with a Party that i am deeply disappointed with, but not enough to punish myself by voting for the rest. I am hoping that the next 5 years give me alternatives that are worth voting for.
( I haven’t mentioned Mr.Advani – that’s because i think that he is uniquely inept. Nero level inept. And, i seriously don’t know how someone who is so not there has ended up leading a major political party. And it is tragic for the BJP that the only person who inspires confidence is also a person who makes people like me very, very nervous – Modi!)
That leaves Mayawati. I don’t think that she knows what her economic policies are.
She would not know either,economics or policies
On Advani, you may read http://is.gd/utuL
-Nikhil
No one else out there is as qualified as the Singh himself and in times like these, we’ve to chose the lesser of the evils I say. No one better than Congress here. Heck, I’ll vote even if Sonia is made the PM – atleast Mr.Singh would then deal a portfolio and we shall have a top notch person handling it.
With likes of Modi n Advani n Varun Gandhi, I’ll wait until their offsprings are declared clean of these religious sentiments they preach before I vote for BJP.
“it is not about security !”
r u joking ???
So if Manmohan Singh is replaced by say, Rahul Gandhi at the behest of his mother, Sonia will you support withdrawing support to the government?
And why is he not contesting? If he is such a good man, he will surely get enough votes, no? Or are we voters considered unworthy or unintelligent enough to vote for a man that would be PM
@nikhil narayanan – thankyou for the link .. interesting read.
@prasoon – i don’t have anything against right wing or right of centre politics. i get uncomfortable with the infusion of religion or regional jingoism. it scares me, especially when i look westwards and see Pakistan 🙁
@vishal – welcome to this blog. the whole quote please, not an out of context portion 🙂
@patrix – he is not contesting for the same reason that a lot of educated middle class candidates are going to lose their deposits. there is no local level constituency. that is the problem with a parliamentary system where you have to have either a caste base or a religious base or a vote bank. He is not a populist leader 🙁 wish that he was. Dr. Singh has been declared as the Prime Ministerial candidate, which is why i am comfortable about making this post. if it had been left open, i may not have been 🙂
Well, agree with the limitations of our system but then MMS is not aspiring for the democracy that we ought to have but rather for one that we have right now. If so, he should play by the rules and contest elections. If he wins, then no one can question his right to be PM. You cannot be outside the system and wait to be anointed by higher powers.
If Congress wins then Sonia should be the PM and let MMS do what he does best, handle the Finance Ministry. He is not PM-material.
Patrix – there is nothing in the rules that says that RS members can’t become PM.
But, i do agree that there needs to be systemic reform – and that this first past the post system goes. I am not an advocate of the US style Presidential election – but i would rather like an adaptation of the Proportional representation system. the current system encourages vote banks, strong arm tactics and utter and terrible corruption – chk this out – http://tinyurl.com/ctygm3
I think that Mrs. Sonia gandhi is a great party leader, but i don’t think that she should be PM – and that is not because of the nationality issue. it is more that the Hindutva elements will take to the streets and prevent any governance. And, at this point of time, more than any, administration is needed. It is too early for Rahul – tho’ i wouldn’t mind seeing PC being unleashed on the collective opposition 🙂 if nothing else it will be entertaining.
In part my objection to Mr.Advani has been the way he has conducted himself over the last 5 years. the man so desperately wanted to be PM – that he just didn’t let Parliament function. He forgot that he represents us – the people – as the leader of the Opposition. He was grandstanding instead of doing his job. He didn’t look after our interests. The role of the opposition is not to oppose everything and not to take to the streets at the drop of a hat, nor is it to conduct policy discussions for camera crews. it is to be in Parliament and ensure that legislation happens . And, in that he failed. He opposed things for the sake of opposing 🙁 I missed Mr.Vajpayee !
This Patrix needs a text book on Political Science. And a whiplash.
And you Harini, should join my group — after all, you just have one more person to eliminate, however likable he may be.
Harini, PC talking to the opposition like he does to journalists — assuming they are all retards — will be a lot of fun.
Go Chettiar!
So I’m watching the guys contesting from our constituency and it’s a tough call to decide who should become (or not become MP) http://myobv.org/index.php?q=node/26&rescity_const=16&pollcity=19
Well said. Although I think Sonia Gandhi would be better as PM with Manmohan Singh as FM. But I agree that the radical Hinduvatis would then make governance impossible, much like the radical Islamists on the other side. I don’t have a problem at all with the fact that MMS is an RS member; it is constitutional. Period. And unlike Patrix, who is in a position to make sweeping judgments for the rest of us that “He is not PM material”, I am not in a position to make such judgments for anybody except myself.
And despite all the Congress’ failings, I agree with Pratap Bhanu Mehta in that my disillusionment with it has to do with its failure to live up to its ideals. On the other hand, the ideals of the RSS (let’s face it, the BJP is just a front organization) have little to do with liberty, equality or fraternity. In other words, its values appear undemocratic, illiberal and fascist. It does not seem to understand what it means to be Indian; all it understands is what it means to be a Hindu in a very narrow sense. There may be many sensible politicians in the BJP who share none of these values, but their core RSS votebank will not give them enough traction to drive the party towards the centre. Let’s not forget how the RSS bullied Vajpayee and even Advani (for his remarks about Jinnah) into submission. Advani would be a much weaker leader than Vajpayee (who had the strength of some integrity and was no bigot).
I find Indonesia’s drift away from RSS-type radical Islamist politics very encouraging. Their democracy appears to be coming out stronger for it. Good luck to them and us.
Read here
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/world/asia/25indonesia.html?ref=global-home
@nilu – i adore PC and how he responds to journo’s. He does treat them like.
and, people are entitled to their view on this site, without being whipped or whiplashed.
am sorry patrix…
@jayadev – vote for MP or vote for Govt. – tough one this time
Hi Suren
welcome to this blog
I like the idea of a government that is not in my face. And a MMS government just does that. it does its job quietly, somewhat effectively and goes home.
With the Congress, you expect them to be better. but, that is more the hangover of Nehru than what has been happening with the party for from the late 1970’s to the 1990’s. I like the way Sonia and Rahul Gandhi have gone about systematically rebuilding the party – to mean something. In that sense they have taken a leaf out of the RSS book 🙂
My problem with the BJP is Hindutva. And, that is my only issue with them. Every time i think that maybe this time i will vote for them, they remind me why i don’t. It is their intolerance that bothers me. As does their tantrums. If we don’t get things our way, we will break the law – kind of behavior. And, this behavior is institutionalized.
i seriously would not mind a right of centre party in India, i may even vote for them. but, this is not the party.
suren, i read the indonseisan article yesterday. i smiled from ear to ear when i finished. ordinary people never cease to amaze me !!
Well, my reason for NOT voting Congress is their failure to live up to the promise of the Independence movement. They could not stop partition and their policies have since failed to educate or lift people out of poverty. Congress got a reprieve after 1947 due to Gandhi’s murder, but increasingly people are calling them out on their unsatisfactory performance post-Independence.
I feel the BJP needs to be given a 2/3rds majority so they can undo Congress’s tinkering with the Constitution and retire the failed policies put in place by Congress.
I am disappointed that a decent man like Manmohan Singh is making a mockery of democracy by not contesting elections, not willing to present an agenda to the people and ask for their votes. Unfortunately, he is not willing to serve as the leader of the people but is willing to serve ad the deewan of the royalty (aka. the FAMILY).
I would have thought about Congress, but the party seems to be badly caught up in the Rajmata-Yuvraj culture of the yore. It is undemocratic and I find it personally insulting.
Regarding economy, I think the opposition economic team is at least as good the present team so thats not an issue.
Surprising, if “it’s the economy stupid” it makes it all the more reason to not vote for UPA. http://is.gd/sIMu
I’d say MMS is the ajit agarkar of indian politics – delivered at some point of time (91-95) and has never done that afterwards. Even that, remember was due to a balance of payments crisis and reforms were mandated by IMO’s loan criteria.
I’d’ve thought if one voted against NDA it would mostly be on the “divisive” nature of the politics. Although, I wonder how dividing in the name of caste is in anyway better than dividing in the name of religion http://tiny.cc/7W9Vg and how Lalu & others become the darlings of the crowd.
BTW, I recently read an article where it is mentioned that ministers in the government of Mr. Manmohan Singh sought votes in the name of Osama bin Laden ( no less !!). I wonder why Mr. Singh was just a mute spectator to this scary stuff.
See this : http://mjakbarblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/band-aid-for-cancer.html
Well, at least PC contests and wins Lok Sabha elections. If UPA wins, no harm in electing him as PM. Let MMS win a Lok Sabha seat, he too can stake a claim. Coming via the RS backdoor although within the rules is cowardly.
Mind you, I am not advocating Advani as PM either so you don’t have to sell me on why he is not the right choice.
>>> The trioka of Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha and Arun Shourie – the best BJP brains in economics – don’t really inspire confidence.
If you think about it, Jaswant and Sinha did a better job of the economy than Chidambaram and Manmohan.
Patrix, Harini has given you all the rights to be yourself. But does that mean you should have the condescending and rather silly ‘Mind you’ prefix for a sentence? Not to mention, the holier than thou ‘no harm’. Where does one learn to speak/write in such fashion?
My suggestion to you, Harini, is — to comment here, one must have read the still relevant ‘On Liberty’ by John Stuart Mill. If not for its own philosophy, at least for understanding how conversations on political philosophy ought to happen.
I completely agree with you. He is the best choice for the post. He is unlike other politicians. One can not trust Advani. Modis and Adavanis have a very myopic view of the world. The country needs a statesman and economist. He has not used his office for any personal gain. We are fortunate that we have such a person leading the country.
When Mr. Manmohan inherited the economy, it was growing at 8.5 % , but now it is at 4-5%. It is so easy to blame it on global slowdown, but if he cannot appoint a finance minister from Dec 1 then we have a big problem. At least he needs to show intent. Did you know that the finance committee hasn’t met even once since Dec 1? Have you heard of any major announcement by finance ministry since Dec 1? Imagine not having a full fledged finance minister for past 150 days when the world is going through possibly the biggest recession ever known. Isn’t it ironic that when India booms thanks to world boom MMS takes credit, while when India is in slowdown – he blames the world? not a sign of a leader right?
Now his next biggest policy – farm waiver. Did you know that close to half the farmers dont take loans from banks but local moneylenders. (govt. own statistics) So the farm loan waiver diddn’t reach the most marginal farmers (And i thought this point was obvious!) but helped clear the NPA of banks. (again govt. own statistics) obviously if the number of farmers committing suicide in vidarbha and chattisgarh is still at rate of 3 per day – this hasn’t obviously worked.
Now on NREGS – the objective of which is to assure people jobs and get them out of below poverty line – again govt. own statistics that NREGS has failed systemically in this with zero (yes zero) families raised above BPL. infact even world bank has criticised NREGS because it is causing artificial wage escalation and loss of entrepreneurship! you could google for the report!
on inflation – while the Wholesale index that is reported has come down to 0.27% the consumer price index.. that is the prices we pay to buy… are still in double digits. India is possibly the only country in the world where there is record grain output, yet food prices are high esp. when global food prices are sliding! the ‘aam’ aadmi is getting a raw deal!
His core competency is economics, but in all his campaign speeches, never once has he said what he is going to do about the economy. He is a big fan of Keynes which says that government needs to spend/ invest in infrastructure and government spending can act counter-cyclical to economy. Yet he has not made any announcements on building roads/ railways/ ports etc. When 1999/2000 (dot com) crisis hit India, we started building roads and lowered interest rates which spurred India’s growth but when the current crisis hits we stop building them. While China builds roads at 11kms per day, we are building it at 3 today
The trimurtis of economics cheat-ambaram, montek and MMS have failed us on the economic front. And he has abdicated his core competency of economics and as a politician has been making remarks against Advani, BJP etc. I expected him to at least mention economics, but sigh!
I might still vote for congress because being least of the evils, but economy/economics is definitely not the reason for them getting my vote. If MMS stood in my constituency, I would not have voted for him. For he has failed to deliver.
Our Oxford studied economist Prime Minister is awesome.
He took our economy to 5-6% gdp growth rate. He took inflation to 14%, but it came down with some tweakings by the babus. What about essential commodities, it is still in double digit. And this is what matters, low inflation and steady growth rate is the only way to reduce poverty.But we have some self professed intellectual macaulites who give the ManMohanSingh the credit for reforming India. And you are those. So tell me do you have any basis for crediting MMS for reforming India ? Because you kids who live on fine dose of MTV VH1 NDTV CNN are simply stupid. Let me explain to you why, Since India’s Independence till 1991 our country was failed economy because of………MMS’s party. From declining the UN Security Council’s permanent membership to declining USA’s offer help us to develop Nuclear Bomb. From being completely closed and socialist to part of Non Aligned Movement. From allowing China to take away Aksai Chin with defeat of 1962 to not having guts to declare ourself as Nuclear Power.
This Party was took us to the D-Day of 1991, when India went bankrupt. With no money to import food medicine etc. At this Point of time MMS was Finance Minister. Tell me macaulites why did our whiz kid allowed India to go bankrupt ?
So all he did was to went begging to World Bank and IMF, and in exchange for loan India was MADE TO COMPLY WITH IMF’s DEMANDS. Tell me where do you see MMS’s ingenuity ? Complying with IMF’s demands ? You think no other person in India would be genius enough to comply with IMF’s demands ?
And tell me why do you fail to see that it was HIS PARTY and HIMSELF that led India to remain closed for 40 years when China had opened up under Deng Xiaoping in 1980s. But wait i remember Indira Gandhi raping Indian democracy in 1980s. But macaulites fail to see that.
Now lets dissect his clean image, You dislike eevil Advani for his role in Babri Maszid. What about Chrar e Sharif Masjid that was destroyed right under your secoolar Manmohan’s clean nose ?
Just like Advani, Manmohan too allowed this Mosque to be destroyed. Yet you still love him.
What about 50,000 crores missing from under our economist Manmohan’s
What about 18,000 crore spectrum allocation fraud right under clean nose of our dear economist Manmohan ?
What about NREGA money devoured by Babus before even reaching poor ?
What about Jayalalitha alleging that Manmohan sat on IB and CBI report on Dayanidhi Maran’s exploiting Telecom Ministry for his brothers TV Channel.
What about Satyam Scandal and Y Samuel Reddy of Congress awarding
Maytas the Hyderabad Metro Rail project when DMRC’s chairman had alleged that there was a scandal brewing.
What about Manmohan’s Cash For Vote scandal ?
What about our dear economist ManMohan doing a favour to his colleague TR Baalu ? PMO was used to supply cheap gad TR Baalu’s sons two companies :- Kings Chemical and Kings High Power.
What about received kickbacks to the tune of Rupees 600 crore for signing a Rupees 10,000 crore arms deal with Israel.
What about ex Foreign Minister Natwar Singh’s Iraqi oil-for-food scam ?
What about Telgi – Sharad Pawar scam ?
What about Hasan Ali Scam which amounts to more than Rs. 35000 crore ?
And what about Manmohan’s failure to raise the question of Indian Black Money in swiss banks, which is around $1400 billion according to Transparency International. ?
And yet you find hope in this ManMohan. May be macaulites like you don’t care about these scams as your mummas and puppas get a cut from the booties.
But wait, may be you love this guy for his undying love for secularism ? And you hate likes of Modi and Advani for them being “Non Secular”.
Lets see how secular they are, your Skoolar idols have said this in past :-
CongressAndhra President DSrinivas: I will chop of those hands that will attack Muslims. Rajiv Gandhi before Sikh holocaust “When big trees fall vibrations will be felt”. Congress ally and Railway Minister Lallloo Prasad: “I will run over Varun Gandhi with road roller & Advani is a harami”.
Congress ally / DMK president Karnuanidhi : “Ram was a drunkard & Ram never existed”.
Sonia Gamdhi cronie & Tourism/Culture Minister Ambika Soni to Supreme Court: “Ram is fake & he never existed”.
PimeMinister Manmohan “Muslims have the first right to Indian resources”.
>What about Manmohan’s role in destruction of Charar e Sharif mosque ?
>What about Rail Minister Lalu’s role in Bhagalpur Riots ?
>What about Congress party’s Imran Kidwai using Fatwah to marshaling votes
>What about Y Samuel Reddy’s communal promise to provide subsidy to Christian pilgrimage ?
>What about India’s 1 and 2 rupee coin having Jerusalem’s Cross ?
>What about dredging of Ram Sethu ?
>What about taxing Hindu temples and subsidizing Madarssas ?
>What about 100 crore to Hindu pilgrims when Muslims get ~4000 crore
>What about World Vision’s Orissa founder & Congress party leader from Kandhmal who murdered Hindu religious leader Laxmanand Sarswati and 10 other hindu ascetic monks.
>What about convicted parliament attack mastermind Afjal Guru who even though sentenced to death is living on Tax Payers money because he is popular among Muslims, who’s votebank is precious for Congress Party.
>What about Coal minister Paswan traitorous remark “I will give Indian citizenship to illegal immigrants from Bangladesh”, when Supreme Court called this act of aggression with a motive to changing Indian demography
Finally, kindly explain their hypocritical silence on Sikh peoples genocide by Congress Party goons led my Tyler Sajjan Kumar Kamal Nath and other, and Muslims from Bangladesh making Assamese Hindus flee homes while Muslims hoisted Pakistan flags in Indian territory.
While Manmohan and his league of vanguards of secularism hollowed up India from inside, from outside China filled up void in Nepal Sri Lanka Bangladesh Myanmar , they always had huge influence over Pakistan.
When China is having influence over 90% of our neighbor. All in 5 years under Manmohan. We have even failed on security front, we have had multiple blasts in following cities :-
Ayodhya, Delhi 2005, Jounpur attack 2005, Benaras, Jama Maszid,Bombay 2006, Samjhota Express, Uttar Pradesh, Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Vadodra, First Attack in Delhi 2008 – Second attack in Delhi 2008, Western India, Agartala, Imphal, Assam attacks in 2008, Mumbai attack in 26/11/2008, Assam attack in 2009.
The first thing the Manmohan did when he became PM was to repeal POTA. Macaulites say that it was not effective against terrorism and terror attacks still took place when we had it, then why don’t the macaulites repeal laws against rape and murder because even though we have those law rapes and murder still take place.
After Mumbai Incident same Seculars passed a clone of POTA.
Is Manmohan to blame for this manslaughter under his nose ?
While he waited to give orders to commandos, and Indians died.
And same Macaulties criticize BJP for saving the life of 170 Indians.
I would rather vote for those who save Indians life at any cost.
I would rather vote for those who had courage to not bow down before US and declare India as superpower.
I would rather vote for those who even after Sanctions, Kargill War, Operation Parakram, 2002 Stock Market Crash took India to 8.55 growth while kept inflation at 6%.
I would rather vote for those who stand for one law to all citizens.
I would rather vote for those who believes in meritocracy not
parivaarvaad.
I would rather vote for those who have courage to talk about Black Money.
I would rather vote for those who did not went to Bush and Obama looking for advice and begging for sympathy after Mumbai Attacks.
I would rather vote for those who don’t humiliate India before world by claiming that India cannot hot IPL due to elections while South Africa which is also having election can host it.
I would rather vote for those who do not make Election Commission and CBI their stooges.
I would rather vote for those who do not appease minorities while calling themselves secular.
I would rather vote for those who don’t make monumental blunders in foreign policy which leads to alienation of India in Sub Continent.
I would rather vote for those who dont stall reforms and growth for political compulsions(Left).
I would rather vote for those who are not sexist-secular-hypocrite at drop of hat for Muslim Vote Bank.(Shah_Bano_case)
I would rather vote for those who don’t marginalize me like Congress did for 5 years for me being hindu.
I will not vote for those who call Hindu communal and Non Hindu secular when :-
Mohammad of Ghori attacked every single Hindu Temple all over Gangetic Plains, From Mathura to Somnath our idols were looted and tens of thousands murdered by invaders. 1000 year marginalized by Mughals and Britishers, slave in their own nation. 140 Hindus Burt alive in Sabarmati Express. 20,000 Hindus Massacred in a single day on Direct Action day.Hindu Population of Kashmir shrunk from 22% to 0.04%
BTW your Oxford studied economist PM Manmohan’s own university “Oxford” says that India will grow at 3.4% gdp growth rate.
p.s. sorry for spelling mistakes, and i was not able to post links from news sties regarding the various scams frauds and scandals under Manmohan’s nose. My guess is it is due to AKismet.
Okay………..so i tried to post my comment many times, still it seems that Akismet is blocking it as spam.
Therefore i have posted on pastebin :-
http://pastebin.com/f555131f9
If you care please post my comment on this blog for every on to see so that the readers can come up to conclusion on this topic on their own.
A Nationalist.
I don’t think you are correct when you equate Parliament with Mumbai Attacks.
Let me first talk about Terrorist attacks:
Can you point number of terrorist activities in BJP regime? I will point for Congress:
Mumbai, Nov 26, 2008: 173
Assam, Oct 30, 2008: At least 45 killed
Imphal, Oct 21, 2008: 17 killed
Kanpur, Oct 14, 2008: Eight people injured after bomb planted on a rented bicycle went off Colonelganj market.
Malegaon, Maharashtra, Sep 29, 2008: Five people died
New Delhi, Sep 27, 2008: Three people killed
New Delhi, Sep 13, 2008: 26 people killed in six blasts across the city.
Ahmedabad, July 26, 2008: 57 people killed after 20-odd synchronised bombs went off within less than two hours.
Bangalore, July 25, 2008: One person killed
Jaipur, May 13, 2008: 68 people killed in serial bombings.
Hyderabad, Aug 25, 2007: 42 people killed in two blasts, at a popular eatery and a public park.
Samjhauta Express, Feb 19, 2007: 66 people killed after two firebombs went off on the India-Pakistan friendship train.
Malegaon, Maharashtra, Sep 8, 2006: 40 people killed in two blasts.
Mumbai, July 11, 2006: 209 people killed in seven blasts on suburban trains and stations.
Varanasi, March 7, 2006: 21 people killed in three blasts including one at a temple and another at a railway station.
New Delhi, Oct 29, 2005: 61 people killed in three blasts on the eve of Diwali.
Mumbai, Aug 25, 2003: 46 people killed in two blasts including one near the Gateway of India.
Gandhinagar, Sep 24, 2002: 34 people killed in the attack on the Akshardham temple.
Do you still think it is apt to compare two events.
Also, one neglected fact is relations w/ Pakistan. In BJP regime Pakistan relations were far better even after Kargil and Parliament attack.
Also, in Gujarat there were RIOTS where as 1984 was a MASSACRE.
Number of Indians killed were far more in 1984.
“if the Congerss is accused of black money, the BJP has the Pramod Mahajan issue. ”
So you are comparing so much black money w/ one scam by a politician. If you want to compare Pramod Mahajan issue then compare it with Natwar Singh scam or Bofors. But don’t compare the cumulative black money in Swiss account w/ one scam.
“…because it is the economy stupid ! and there is no other person I trust more to navigate us out of the financial whirlpool created by Wall Street greed and White House stupidity.”
How many reforms did he initiate in past four years???? And then compare his reforms w/ reforms of NDA government. Your arguments is based more on a hunch and a personal liking rather than any analysis. And I feel you are trying to justify you *liking* towards him through unfounded facts.
I personally do respect MMS a lot for his knowledge but India does not need a Professor, it needs a strong, honest leader.
To be very true Gargi, I had the same liking and enthusiasm for MMS when he was elected (or rather appointed by His Highness) PM of India. But for me he was very disappointing.
PS: I don’t support Advani either.
@ Gargi: I would definitely vote for a right-of-centre party in India myself, but the RSS is not that party. I say the RSS, because, to borrow NT Rama Rao’s words from another context , the BJP is a conceptual myth. The BJP is to the RSS what ‘the construction business’ is to the Mob. To borrow another idea from our own history, a right-of-centre party that I would vote for would be similar to Rajaji’s Swatantra Party. But that is just my personal perspective. I hope N R Narayana Murthy somehow gets to read this:) And as bit of a small c conservative, I like MMS’s “does his job quietly without any fuss” style as well.
Ordinary people never cease to surprise me either, but let’s not froget that it was ordinary people who were manipulated en masse into killing Sikhs in 84, Hindus in 02 and Christians in 08. These things are always touch and go, which is why the whole Hindu Rashtra thingy is completely unacceptable. I am not a violent person, but any attempt to flush my country down a Hindu Rashtra toilet of national disintegration might make me reconsider even that.
@ Ankit: Re: the Rajmata-Yuvraj equation, I find it personally insulting as well. Just as I find Rajmata Vijayraje Scindia (a real Rajmata, this one!), Vasundhara Raje Scindia, Yashodhara Raje Scindia and Dushyant Singh; Rajnath Singh and Pankaj Singh; A B Vajpayee, Ranjan Bhattacharya and Karuna Shukla et al personally insulting.
@ Patrix: I would suggest accquiring some insight. Nobody is trying to sell anything to you, sunshine. But then there’s no harm in you commenting here.
@ the RSS types arriving here from Yossarin’s blog: As a moderate centrist, I found the civilized exchange of comments on one of Atanu Dey’s blog posts between some sensible people highly educative. You may want to read it to see how mature, moderate Indians (Indians, NOT Hindus) debate the recorded performance of the Congress and the BJP. And no, it doesn’t involve shouting at the top of your voice in the hope that others will just shut up.
http://www.deeshaa.org/2009/01/29/endorsing-the-bjp/
Apologies and correction: Line 3 para 2 should read “Muslims in 02”
Apologies and correction: Line 3, para 2 should read “Muslims on 02”
Voting congress..do you know the allies of congress?
Left, RJD, LJP, JMM, Left, SP.. If you are voting for congress, you are indirectly voting for them.
How effective was the congress government in the last 5 years?
Arjun Singh as HRD minister? Shivraj Patil as home minister? Even after no performance MMS was unable to remove Shivraj Patil because he was too close to the gandhis.
One thing I don’t really understand..
How is BJP communal and congress secular?
Sikh riots, kashmiri pandit issue, not missing even a single occasion to please minority community.
Suren,
Considering I had to search online for half the people that you mentioned in your fullisade makes me feel that I made my point pretty well. If you go down the path of dismissing everyone who does not seem to agree with you with the RSS types label, more power to you and your echo chamber!
PS: I also take that the not so RSS types like you are proud of the secular poster-boys who have asked for votes in the name of Osama and still are your darling 🙂
Ankit
I meant fusillade…spelling mistake 🙂
Don’t worry Ankit, you wouldn’t have had to search online if you were living in India and had the misfortune to be actually ruled by them. And last time I checked, there were at least 7 other commenters on this thread speaking sense in that crowded echo chamber. And a lot more on the Mint thread.
Btw, don’t worry about the spelling. Spelling English properly is an undesirable Macaulayite trait:-D
Suren,
Yeah man, unlike you I do not seem to have had the opportunity to go to good schools. Went to government schools that are the legacy of 40 years of rule from the one family that is reservoir of leadership and wisdom. Hence the spelling mistakes 🙂
Last time I checked, there was no talk of an Advani or a Vajpayee being the next in line for the opposition’s leadership ( hint : it is a Modi). So, if you have to dig up unknown names (Dushyant Singh, anyone?) to defend the dynasty, you have my sympathy.
PS. My guess is that you would like to have another government where ministers swear by Osama (ref: my previous post). My friend, have some mercy on fellow countrymen!
Ankit
@Amit – welcome to this blog.
it is a bit difficult for me to get worked up about partition. my father was 5 years old at that time.
while i understand that there are those who still see partition as the worst thing that happened, i am not so sure. if the country had been united – we would have had the combined territories of Bangladesh & Pakistan and their combined population and their combined problems. Like Yugoslavia broke apart and USSR broke apart – it is likely that akhand bharat would have too… and in our life times. Besides, you may have just ended up with Sharia as the law 🙁
@Ankit – welcome to this blogs. The good thing about being a free country is that we are all entitled to our views:) may the party that does the best for the country win !
@Shrek – welcome to this blog. loved the ajit agarkar analogy. i really think that MMS & team have done a good job -in my travels through rural India – i found villagers and NGO’s sing praises of the NREGS. Having said that the same is applicable to Modi and Gujarat. As i said earlier, my vote is for the Congress – doesn’t mean that i am going to ask everyone else to do the same.
And the only reason i made this post was because i was tired of Mr.A’s advertising chasing me all around the place 🙂
Gargi
“may the party that does the best for the country win !” Could not agree more! You and I clearly differ on what party that is, but if the best party wins, we all win. Remember, as fellow citizen we sink or swim together.
So, as you said, here is hoping that the best party wins!
Cheers,
Ankit
@ankit – 🙂 . i am deeply uncomfortable with the UPA allies. but, the only thing that would make me veer towards the NDA is the allies.
with the UPA allies – the problem is that they drag down the Cogress. the NDA allies temper the BJP …
may the best for the nation win – and may they act in the best interest of the nation after winning !
Gargi – I am conflicted on whether to feel privileged for driving traffic to this blog or offended for guilt by association. Nevertheless why insinuate the RSS by associating with me 🙂 it maybe considered offensive in some circles.
Great debate nevertheless, I wish Manmohan Singh had shown as much openess to debate issues as you as his admirer have.
Two closing thoughts for what they are worth
Jagadish Bhagawati via Jaitley – Good management of the National Economy is inversely proportionate to the number of economists it has (http://twitter.com/offstumped/status/1629657885)
Read BR Ambedkar in the Constituent Assembly on Prime Minister being someone elected directly by the people (http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/03/27/founding-fathers-elect-prime-minister-by-direct-adult-suffrage/)
@ Patrix – i seriously don’t have an issue with a RS MP being PM. so we shall agree to disagree. In fact, i would like to see a lot more people from civil society – achievers – ending up in the house of elders 🙂 to act as a countervailing force to the populism of the political order.
It’s sad that the best brains in both main parties – have to take the RS route – because they will not win a constituency. because they don’t have a caste/ religious base. That , i guess, is the problem of being middle class in India.
@Shadows – welcome to this blog. They were too wishy washy. they would introduce something and then there would be protestes and they would withdraw it. You can’t run a Government, an economy or security that way. Coming to think of it that is why Kandahar happened. It does not indicate a strong government. it denotes a Govt. that does not know what it is doing.
@Nilu – it’s a free country and we have the right to free expression. It extends to this blog . the only thing i ask is for civil behavior – even if we all dislike each other’s views:) but, sometimes, i understand, tht it is not easy 🙂
which group do you want me to join ?
@ Anil – welcome to this blog. thank you. i agree 🙂
@ lucky -welcome to this blog. Farm waiver is one of those things where it is damned if you do and damned if you don’t. We have just back from filming in Dhule – and there are marginal farmers who have benefitted and those who go to saukar’s who have not. That problem is seriously complex – starting with subsidies to fertilizer companies to push fertilizers to the size of land holding.
On NREGS – there are places that it has delivered and there are places where it hasn’t. I have seen it in action in states like HP and Orissa and people – both beneficiaries and NGO’s – who are singing praises. I won’t take the WB too seriously on this : they believed tht it acted as a barrier to ‘internal migration’ – which means people moving from villages to cities. Which may be correct in the context of which ever Ivory tower that they live in, but terrible in the context of a country which, at best, has creaky urban infrastructure. The best way to start a revolution 🙂
check out this on NREGA – discount wht is written by 30% – its a left wing mag 🙂
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article1256.html
on further googling, i also found this – a retraction, of sorts, from the WB
http://rural.nic.in/news/0618032009.pdf
we can go thro’ all issues one by one but it has been a long day, and i am falling asleep on my key board – put it down to age:) so i will conclude by saying, what i said in my post :
it is for the next 5 years that i am voting for the congress, not the last. They are not my favourite party. the only problem is that i dislike the rest more !
@rejoinderxylem – the reason your comments ended up in spam was possibly the multiple links.
welcome to this blog and thank you for your comments.
I don’t think that you and i will ever see eye to eye on any issue, so there is no point causing negativity by getting into an argument.
thank you for calling me a kid — 🙂 that is very kind of you
go in peace and stay in peace !
@sharad – welcome to this blog.
The terrorists will always have an upper hand – because they don’t mind killing and maiming innocents. The security forces will always be at a disadvantage – in a democratic civilised society – because they are going into battle with one hand tied behind. Lives matter for them.
I can be trite and say that i am not voting on security but on economy, but i won’t. terrorist attacks 🙁 in India – on Indians –
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/59319
this, of course, doesn’t include Naxal action.
There was no rioting in Gujarat, it was a massacre 🙁 . Indian citizens killed, while an impotent state stands at the sidelines. Delhi 1984 and Gujarat are the same for me. Even if i accept the Nanavati report and Mr.Modi’s non involvement, that leaves me the other option that he was inept ! there is no third option, unfortunately.
the tragedy is that we have no choice. i am voting for what i think is the better of the two options. neither of which are not particularly appealing !
@Suren – i was thinking of the Swatantra party just the other day, and wondering how the fate of the nation would have been if it had survived
i am a Hindu too 🙂 and i am just as proud of that part of my identity as i am of the rest. The only thing is that being Hindu is not my only identity !!
@aj – the party that bothers me about the NDA is BJP sans Vajpayee :(. The left of course, terrifies me !
@Yossarin – welcome to this blog and thank you for driving traffic to it:) when i first read Suren’s comment i wasn’t sure why someone from catch 22 would be in the RSS 🙂
thank you.
I have read both. i studied Bhagwati at University – rather trudged through his work – and still follow his writings. Though i don’t always agree with what he is saying ! this one is possibly correct 🙂
I have read practically everything written by Dr. Ambedkar. Unfortunately the world has changed since then. this is a world where if he stood against Mayawati, he would lose :(. he aslo said that reservations should end in 10 years 🙁 (‘its a bit like Jesus being declared a dangerous commie in the US!
I really do believe that time has come for constitutional reform and revision of the entire electoral system. And, i am sure that all parties will unite in opposing it. maybe they all need to understand that they are not our leaders but our representatives, and all that we have done is outsourced our work to them 🙂 but that will be the day pigs fly !
I think Congress can do better if they stop being the Gandhi family cult. The family’s control over the party means that there is reasonable certainty we will be stuck with a family member after Manmohan.
In addition the party is paying a price by fracturing into regional parties due to its cultish behaviour. And the seat sharing stupidity is driving voters like me who’d rather vote for someone like Pawar towards the BJP because there is no other alternative when the seat is given to Congress.
@ Ashish – agreed. India is not a family business . i was veering towards the MNS in Maharashtra till Raj Thackeray began began beating up ‘outsiders’ . He started fairly well… but went down the hatred path 🙁
An interesting article and an interesting discussion… we have both the Congress and BJP supporters here, both wanting their party to do better than what they are doing now.
As for me, I voted for Congress in last election in 2004 but in 2009 I have already voted, and voted for BJP. I think I voted for the right party for this elections 🙂
Wow, a pseudo secular congie blog. Its pretty hard to find one of these.
I cannot believe any educated person would want to vote for MMS. Regardless of BJP/Hindu rashtra or whatever MMS is nothing but a rubber stamp PM for G family and everyone knows it. He has no qualifications and by not contesting elections shows that he won’t get the pass grade for politics.
This puppet PM led by Italian Sonia Gandhi has ruined our country.
I am sorry the macaulyites and pseudo secular media got to you. How many others among the educated classes are like you I wonder.
@ Anup – glad you voted. so many talk but don’t vote 🙁
i am not voting Congress because it’s my father’s party – tho’ at times of economic crisis, i wish it was – i am voting for them, because of the economic mess and my belief in MMS’s ability to get us out of it…. As i said earlier, i wish that there was an alternative.
The BJP’s economics is at best wonky. And, i wish that they had spent sometime clarifying what they stand for, apart from a temple in Ayodhya, and publicly warning all those who have monies stashed away abroad 🙂
@SC – welcome to this blog.
i guess that we will figure after the elections.
and what is it with this macaulyites tag – that every one is bandying around. why is some dried up old Brit from 2 centuries ago, relavent in today’s day and age. don’t we have any new analogies 🙂
We need change. Period.
This mentality of trusting old administration got George Bush elected for the second term as people thought his administration did great job in handling 9/11 crisis.
We do not need an intellectual economist as a PM. We need a leader.
Congress under Sonia Gandhi failed to deliver adequately !!
gargi.. I seriously think you should read L.K. Advani’s autobiography ‘My country, My life’. Not only is it an insight into his life but a commentary on the political landscape of the last 6 decades. From Nehru’s ruinous rule to Indira Gandhi’s Emergency to the Ayodhya movement, the book has it all.
BTW: macaulayite means a an anglicised Indian who is like a brown saheb, who looks down on his fellow Indians as inferior and has no relations to his cultural background. Here is what Macaulay said in the British Parliament 150 years ago
“I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”
and his heirs- the carefully nurtured Nehru-Gandhis ( unlike the true nationalists like Vir Savarkar, Lajpat Rai, Bhagat Singh etc who were sentenced to kala pani, beaten or hanged etc. ) have been carrying out to this day- congress, SP, RJD, commies, etc. in the name of ‘secularism’ and ‘socialism’.
Gargi – I too think MMS is a honest person. He is a wonderful person, no doubt. But MMS could not live up to his potential because of various factors, the left parties being one, and probably his forced allegiance to Sonia Gandhi’s myopic leadership. It has got a lot to do with his helplessness at the helm, rather than his disinterest in nation’s affairs.
After having read BJP’s manifesto, their IT and infrastructure vision, and some leading business magazines’ like BS giving a thumbs up on their manifestoes, I think they have promised more than a temple, but it is to be seen how much they will go on to implement it. My hope was that it would perhaps bring back memories of the Vajpayee era. In 1998 and 1999 the situation was worse, and almost everybody looked up to the BJP government to rule the country. So, another chance may not be that bad? After all, Dr. Manmohan Singh also got two chances, one during 1991-96 and another 2004-now. The first time he was exceptional and the next time he was less than inspiring. Also, his health problems mean he is much less inspiring.
I think, you have chosen to debate between Manmohan vs Advani, with Advani being less inspiring for you than Manmohan, but I have chosen to decide between the parties, BJP and Congress. So, in that sense I thought BJP is a much better party with lot of people who have proven their talent like a Jaitley, or Modi, or Shourie. Also, the Congress was given as many chances as possible since independence, and the rate at which they are going to destroy institutions like EC or CBI to keep power with themselves and benefit their friends, I fear we probably want democracy to not take a beating again. Now, speaking of Hindutva type of politics by BJP I think it is given far too much hype and importance by media than what it deserves. There are indeed some things which should not have happened but I choose to bury them. EI also chose to bury Congress’s dismal record on terrorism.
As a simple yardstick to choose whom I should vote, I went by comparing the level of development and level of corruption in Congress-ruled and BJP-ruled states. I for one belong to a Congress ruled state and voted for them to come to power, it did well for three years and the rural households were too happy with this government but then started unleashing all kinds of tricks to come back to power. In the process they took to everything from buying votes to rigging to goondaism to win back state elections held simultaneously with Lok sabha 2009, and finally they are in a dock now and are not really the favorites to retain power in the state on May 16th. So, congress should do better if it concentrates on maintaining integrity and the institutions and not worry about power. I am sorry, it is too long.
why is some dried up old Brit from 2 centuries ago, relavent in today’s day and age. don’t we have any new analogies
It’s a useful analogy if the political landscape has not changed.
Because once upon a time, there used to be a political party in India which rallied people – Hindu and Muslim – to it’s cause. But the establishment running the government always doubted the party’s ability to represent the Muslims. The party did it’s best to take interest in Muslim issues, promote Muslim leaders and even came to power with Muslim votes, but the party never did convince the government that it spoke for all Indians.
Eventually, the ruling establishment won and the government created Pakistan. The political party became the part of the establishment and formed the government. But something changed along the way. There rose another political party claiming to represent the people. And the government again doubted the party’s ability to represent all Indians – Hindu or Muslim…
Hi,
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I think most of the points I would like to make have been covered here by other commentators and I would have to say that it has been a very civil discussion.
Just two points.
a. On the NREGS that you mentioned, instead of debating on anecdotes like we have been, we could debate on how the very objective of the policy is flawed/or not , setup for success/not etc – I do not want to take up more space here. Do let me know if you want to discuss, we could do it elsewhere
b. If for a minute we were to assume that Dr. Singh was a CEO, I can bet my entire life savings ( since it isn’t much yet :D) that he would have been fired long long ago. Such tragedy that on the one thing we expected Dr. Singh to deliver i.e. economy, he has jettisoned our hopes.
Cheers,
There was a time when I enjoyed watching agarkar bowl, Alas!
Socialism fails not because implementation is simply not possible. I believe that role of government is to provide opportunities to those who don’t have access to them. The old adage about Teaching to fish being better than giving them fish is precisely the reason why I am against schemes like NREGS or loan waiver even in the best case you will dole out money to the poor – until you run out of it. More practically, you will shovel money out of the economy into the pockets of some netas along the way.
Didn’t Mr.Rahul Gandhi say recently, out of Rs.100 only 10 paise is reaching the poor. I would love to ask, Sir who do you think was running the government the past five years?
@SC – i have read excerpts from Mr.Advani’s biography. will read the full thing at some point in time.
i know what a macaulayite is. I don’t know why it is relevant today. there are things that we should be proud of and there are things that we should change. My culture right or wrong is a bit like saying my mother drunk or sober 🙂
do try and read Dharampal’s works on INdia before the British Raj. Especially the level of education, governance , judiciary and the like – and the way they systematically decimated it. it’s a 5 volume work that is brilliant – hopefully one day i will get the money to make a film on it !
it’s a tragedy that the books are not widely available.
chk him out here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharampal and here http://www.dharampal.net/
there is stuff in his books that will make you weep – the systematic annihilation of culture
i am not voting for the Congress based on the past, i am voting for it for expectations of the future.
i believe that the Sangh parivar’s version of Hindutva is as detrimental to our culutre as Macaulay was. The beauty of our way of life is its sheer diversity, they are making our way of life monolithic. but, that is not the reason why i am not voting for the BJP. I am not voting for them, because i don’t particularly find them competent.
@ anup -the tragedy of India is the rapidity with which power corrupts. look at the BJP in Rajasthan and why they lost.
i see marginal differences between the two parties. MMS gives the Congress an advantage. just as Vajpayee gave the BJP an advantage…
@amit – divide and rule. the rule of the game … we can debate Indian history and the difference between a common ethos – can’t even call it a cultural commonality – and nationalism another day. both the BJP and the Congress are guilty of polarising the people. caste, religion, language – have all been used to create vote banks with no delivery.
The BJP has to define itself better than not being the Congress.
@ lucky – i don’t subscribe to the libertarian philosophy of letting the market take care of things, for the simple reason that in an oligopolistic market there is little or no chance of that. theoretically it is possible – so is time travel 🙂 practicality is another issue. so given my disposition if you want to have a free and fair exchange of ideas – let us 🙂
lol 🙂 it doesn’t happen that way in the real world
@Shrek – you and i are on agreement on Socialism. i think that the 10 paise quote was Rajiv, i could be wrong.
Wow, you are still repeating same old line.You are still saying Congress is better when it comes to economics and BJP is not ?
Them please explain, which Party kept us closed and socialist for 44 years ?
Which party under which FM took India to its bankruptcy in 1991 ?
Which party under which FM went begging to IMF for loan ?
Answer is Congress party, and your favorite economist Manmohan who was FM back in 1991.
Manmohan only complied with IMF’s demands.
His second term, we are back with 5% GDP growth rate, and still double digit essential commodity inflation.
What is so wonderful about his record ?
BJP took us to 8% GDP growth rate even after 1997 Asian Financial Crisis,Pokhran, Sanctions, Kargill, Operation Parakram and 2002 Software Bubble burst + Markets Crash.
They did this while they kept inflation at 6% and interest rates low.
And you think that their BJP’s economics is wonky ?
Seriously what are you smoking ?
And tell em what do you really know about Hindutva ? Tell me why it is bad and Congressis and Macaulites’s who encourage Christian evangelism is good ?
We are not going to wait till our religion is wiped out, every religion goes through transformation. After looking at what missionaries and jihadis are doing, I think Hindutva is needed for Hindus survival.
And BTW, just now we had another bomb blast in Assam. Please go to Assam and make Assamese Hindus believe that Hindutva is bad.
If you were in place of those Assamase or those Kashmiri Pundits who are still living in camps after 25 years, you would have said that this pseudo secularism and its vanguards are bad for this country.
REjoinderxylem – i will not debate with people who
a) have no manners – i am sure it is possible to have a conversation without accusing someone of smoking up or being drunk or being mentally challenged . everyone else on this page has managed.
b) sit in Australia ,don’t vote in India – and get sanctimonious about election issues here. if you care so much, come here and get involved. don’t snipe from the side lines. your IP address is out of Australia.
that is not to say that people outside India cannot have views on India or anywhere else. It is to say stop being a hypocrite. if you care so much, come back and make the difference.
Maybe my problem with Hindutva is not their philosophy. maybe it is the ill mannered louts who use violence – be it words or action – to drive home their point. Maybe it possible to make the same points without being offensive. Learn it, and we will talk. Else goodbye. i would say it has been a pleasure, but i usually try not to lie 🙂
peace in your life.
The BJP has to define itself better than not being the Congress.
This does not matter as long as the BJP keeps showing how the Congress is occupying the space vacated by the Raj.
amit – the problem is that as far as the bulk of the bulk of the voting public is concernend = ‘the raj’ happened a very, very long time ago.
i will give u a simple example – my students think that sholay was old, partition was ancient and mix up the 1962 war and the 1972 war easily. for them it is as ancient as Shivaji. while, you may say – and i would agree – that it is the fault of the education system that they don’t remember our heroes , harping on it alone is of no use. it is not relevant, except for those who really care.
i care about history. but gen next doens’t . they care about the future. while the congress has its bunch of old fogies inlcuding the PM – look at the youth they are projecting….
and, finally – the BJP needs to get relavent. beyond hindutva. beyond temples and mosques and forteen hundred and something. while they may have excellent policies somewhere, remember that the Sangh Parivar is as conservative as the Commies when it comes to liberalisation and modernisation. So where does that leave us ?
i really wish that there was an alternative to the Congress – unfortunately, the BJP is not it.
@Gargi,
a) No body should label you, but you are free to label anyone as anything ?. Narendra Modi was voted back to back by people of Gujarat in a democratic process where there was opposition, nobody in India is criticized more than Modi, yet you call him fascist.
_You failed to defend your belief, and now you are using excuses._
b)Check my IP again, maybe now i am in Germany. I sit in India, and know a thing or two about networks. I can assure you i will be in line somewhere on 7th May.
Look i find manners of people like you no better than pigs on a farm, why do you expect us to respect you ? When you don’t respect us ?
At the same time, you people make all sort of accusations and label the people with whom likes of you disagree with as “Fascist”,”Dictator”, “UnInspiring”, “Wonky”. When people question you and expose your flawed belief with facts and figures, you fail to defend your demented belief.
Silence is a loud reminder of your weak ideological foundation.
BTW there is fine line between Cowardice and Violence, you people are the ones who see their nation raped and fail to defend its honor.
Likes of us fight, and you think that is bad because Gandhi told you be coward.
Following is a quote of Mahatma Gandhi.
“I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence… I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor.” http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/phil8.htm
You call us the ill mannered and violent, because we question you and fail to become eunuch like you.
Sorry we cannot become like you. But if you will question us, then expect us to question you. If you will label us, we will label you.
BTW if you don’t like being questioned, kindly make this blog private. Internet have its own definition of manners, which you certainly lack. And it will not fail to do its duty (compare information).
And after years of practicing your stupid ideology , i see no peace in India. Kashmiri Hindus disappeared years ago, now is the turn of Assamese.
http://www.livemint.com/2009/05/01095308/India-among-world8217s-most.html?d=2
rejoinderxylem
on cowardice – we are all in public space with our own names, our own domains and we are putting our money where our mouth is. we don’t find the need hide who we are, what are names are, or where we are from.it is comes from courage of conviction.
are you in this country. do you pay taxes here. do you vote. are you making the change. are you being the change, that you want to see. are you contributing in any positive manner apart from going to other people’s virtual home’s and screaming at them. you are the one who wants to hide behind an internet curtain and call people names. which may be part of your upbringing and culture, but i was brought up to believe that it bad manners. And, not part of our culture.
if you cannot make your point in a manner that is civilized, there is no point in continuing this. I know lots of people who support the BJP – including some of my family, friends and business associates. People i genuinely care about. none of them need to resort to name calling. calling politician’s names is part of the game. calling each other names is simply intolerance. And, i seriously don’t want to waste my time and energy on someone who doesn’t know how to behave or have a civilized argument.
as i mentioned in my first response to – there is no way we will agree on anything. so good bye. and good luck in what ever it is that you do..
btw your IP says Netherlands – nice place.
go in peace and stay in peace.
hey,
the only point i mentioned was – let us debate on whether NREGS is setup for success and its purpose. I did not question whether we need the government or not. Questioning NREGS is not equitable to questioning govt. vs free marks. Thats another topic altogether. I am sure that you would also agree that libertarians say govt. is a necessary evil. So no one is dismissing the government – last of all me!
While private has business objectives – government has social objectives. That does not mean govt. gets into business to meet social goals. There can be and are better ways of doing it and still achieving the same social goals. And thats my only point.
You haven’t responded to my earlier comments on ‘India not having a full term finance minister or finance ministry not meeting even once for past 100 days.’ – when the world is going through its biggest economic crisis!
I don’t know where to contact you over mail. You know my id, do mail in if you have patience and energy and we can take it forward.
Nope, it was rahul. Rajiv said 15 paise out of 1 rupee, rahul extended that to 10 paise out of 100rs. and that is how their government works. more importantly, you may say mms is good at economics etc, but I haven’t seen any evidence of his knowledge in his policies.
Credit maybe claimed and given to him over liberalisation of 91-95 but remember it was due to a fiscal deficit crisis, situation forced his hand then.
I prefer to be a cynic about all politicians. The power they seek is an end in itself. They don;t seek power to do something “good” for the people.
RSS is a socially conservative, they couldnt care less if you popped open our economy with zero duties, zero taxes etc as long as they get to impose their view of indian culture and tradition on the rest of us. Commies on the other hand couldnt care less if they had to criminals or religious fundamentals in their ranks as long as they can get to shut down everyone and call for a state controlled – equal economy. The real reason left opposes bjp is not because of secularism as it claims , but because it(bjp) is rightist even in economic policies compared to the rest. Recently, cong leaders have come out and said congress and left have similar ideologies – where was dr.mms to counter that?
Beware the halo effect. Just because he’s earned a doctorate in economics doesnt mean his policies should be exempt from scrutiny and criticism. A fiscal deficit of 11% going into a recession, when most countries would add debt by Keynesian spending? Proposal for increased direct taxation in the manifesto, increased import duties during the boom years(circa 2006) to speak nothing of the tele-spectrum allocation scam and sez scams ? I’m afraid this doesn’t convince me he even knows what he is doing. Or if I am charitable, I could say he wants to do something else but is unable to because he doesn’t have the power, which doesn’t differ all that much in the outcome compared to earlier. And finally, I heard an argument long time back when the adults were discussing politics – congress and bjp should form alternate governments. I’ve come closer to subscribe to that view now- Feedback should reach the congress that past 5 years weren’t enough to warrant another go. Future expectations have to be based on past performances too, especially when judging someone who has considerable history.
I will leave you with this article I may not agree with all that he says, but about scrutiny of policies I am with him. Btw – MMS once again shows he’s forgotten economics. Low interest, low taxation are incentives for economic growth. In a saturated economy, that may lead to reduction in revenues, but in a (supposedly) high potential economy as ours, lower taxation, low interest actually increase revenue. (Laffer curve effect)
@gargi
I rest my case, I succeeded in exposing the weak foundation of your belief that Congress=good@economic & BJP=bad@econmics.
You failed to defend it. And took shelter behind excuses.
a) I have no option but to protect my identity due to three reasons, 1) My good relations within the three ideological power circles, 2) My deep insight into media, 3) IB working overtime under congress government. I have to cover a great distance and i will not take any unnecessary risk. If you confuse my precautions with cowardice, then alright. I am sure you think same way about Bhagat Singh.
b) Rest of your drivel is outright silly. Get a clue lady, you are on
Internet. It is not possible to be one day in Australia and the next in Netherlands. There are easier ways for people like me who stay in India(also who pay taxes, who go out and vote and who bring change) to confuse the hell out of people like you and make them look silly(While google documents and archives their stupidity for many generations to see).
c) I find pigs better mannered than the likes of you. (Just saying, my opinion thats all).
Now that you are on Internet get a clue about these basic things you certainly don’t know.
We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.
we are talking of voting a party because of particular leaders. Seems like we should be having presidential democray(http://sachinkundu.net/blog/2009/04/22/i-want-a-president/)
hi lucky
was just setting out my own beliefs before a conversation. so that we atleast know the basics of one’s ideological views. s
a) i believe that the government has a ‘governance objective’ which includes the social objective. while it may not have a ‘profit’ (business) objective – it too has to be effective, efficient and deliver.
b) it hasn’t had a full time FM. it should have.
look, i haven’t voted the Congerss coz it’s my father’s party – tho’ at times like this i wish it was :). i voted for it because i believe that it is better than anyone on offer currently. If that changes by the next election, great.
On the NREGS – if implemented properly – it would be truly great. it’s objectives would be
a) decrease rural poverty
b) get areas out of the Naxal grip
c) ensure that developmental work – such as building of roads etc. get completed fast
The work is stuff that needs to be done – be it in terms of infrastructure projects , such as building roads or dams. i have seen it in action in part of Maharashtra, Orissa, HP. Panchayats speak well of them – talking of roads that have gotten built and housing that has ended up getting constructed.
However, given the nature of who are and how we behave there are two questions:
a) is it reaching its intended receipient or is there rampant corrupion
b) is there really development work or are people digging holes that no one needs.
and my view is that we need stronger social audit methods to figure whether these schemes are really working.
I am against the idea of social security – the way it exists in the western Europe. I belive that it causes a great deal of indolence and the expectation that people have a right not to work.
i much prefer the NREGS form of social security – where it is not a hand out. people do something in return.
There was a time that i believed that action such as this screwed up the workings of the economy.
now, i realise that but for stuff like this – it would be easy for people with no hope and no future and no income to end up with either the Taliban or its equivalent or the Naxals – as cannon fodder.
would definitely like to debate this or anyother topic – an exchange of ideas is always a good thing.
@shrek – thankyou – i googled that and read it…
this is what he said
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i will put it down to electioneering. MP is supposed to be a well run state !
thank you for the link. will read & revert
i am cynical on politicians in general. i subscribe to the view that goes ‘ how do you tell a politician is lying. his lips move’ 🙂
@sachin kundu – welcome to this llog.
I am not a supporter of the Presidential style – more because of the nature of india. we will end up with the Nehru Gandhi parivaar mostly. it’s a brand name that most people recoginse.
and, that is a very scary prospect !
What I dont like about Sonia is her “wait for ever doing nothing and the problems solve themselves; Say nothing and people will interpret your silence to be thoughtful”. If only she could be a little bit more dynamic and think about her country rather than her party, the congress party would become more attractive. MMS is a bad PM- he doesnt connect with the masses. He is only a little better than Madam Patil in this respect. How can he be a leader?
You may have noticed that I am from France. Out here, all appointed ministers should resign if they do not win their popular vote.
Hello Revathy and welcome to this blog
I have issues with the Congress Party. serious issues.
SOnia Gandhi’s function is a) the UPA alliance – which she managed to pull through for 5 years, b) the Congress Party – which she and Rahul have begun revitalising.
Some of the policies dear to her have actually been implemented by the outgoing govt. – including the NREGA. But, you are right – she can be more outgoing and forth coming.
MMS connects with the middleclass. he, like us, us a man without a constituency 🙁 and he has come from no where, with no political lineage, and relative honesty to make it to the top…. i trust him to navigate us out of this mess – only if the Congress doesn’t need the Left to run the economy. those guys are seriously retrograde
i normally don’t trace the IP adress of people who post on this blog – unless they are being terribly offensive 🙂
I like the French system of electing the President, and the Assembly.
We need systemic change in Inida.
I would like to see the rajya sabha , for example, made up of more people from civil society – to act as a countervailing power to the career politicians. i would like to see an elected presdient – but not with the absolute powers tht the US president has. And finally i would like to see a propotional representation system which is more representative.
But, for now we have to work with what we have – and i have chosen to exercise my franchise for the least offensive and most efficient option – i accept that this is subjective.
I would prefer having MMS contest from RS. I don’t have any objection. He is still better as a PM than Sonia Gandhi. I wan’t the family tradition to stop. Seriously ! Stop it.
Congress accuses BJP of not implementing NREGA properly. Do they forget what they have done to the Golden Quadrilateral project?
They say BJP hasn’t impemented NREGA is Gujarat. Does Gujarat really need that project. They have more local coopreatives than other states.
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I am not a die-hard BJP supporter as now you must be thinking, but a message to congress — “Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones at other’s house”
@Manish – welcome to this blog
thank you
I would agree with you on the family tradition.
i am also sick of this tu tu mein mein elections. each is trying to prove how horrid the other us, instead of fighting on their own merits. this election reminds me of a Balaji soap…
i am not a die hard congress supporter 🙂 i am not. tho’ i marginally prefer it to the BJP – but that’s a bit like saying that i would rather have jaundice than typhoid 🙁
Interesting
uve put mms s pic
first i dont really know if he will last 5 yrs now that mr yuvraj is being showed at the media , he may be shown the door anytime in true congi tradition
secondly congress will come with baggage
COmmunists / mulayam laloo alliance / jaya? now that mk is predicted out
so i dont trust that lot
u said
…because it is the economy stupid … fully disagree
why? because policy is controlled by sonia and Allys
and by her statements and bloomberg , wsj reports which are free of she will bring back indira rajya which in this day and age is going back to hindu (nehru) growth rate of 4% with massive inflation
frankly mms and chidambaram the dream team have made the economy a nitemare 11% fisc deficit , 90+ % loan to gdp ratio , 10% cpi inflation- banks having a huge npa which is swept under the carpet thanks to easing of norms … dole economics…
psus milked by govt and a huge bill for future citizens in oil bonds and figure fudging budgets …
i miss vajpayee too and hey the bjp messed up an easy election victory by focussing on mms instead of inflation , incompetence and lies
the bjp is no different though as everyone will spend spend spend
id prefer the bjp for the sole reason that they are increasing the tax free limit for middle class and there is less tax goofup and mess and harassment and corruption and i got tax refund.
ps i voted independent this time hate the deora clan!
I used to respect Manmohan Singh but developed contempt for him after his 1999 election campaign during which he claimed that it was not the Congress but BJP that killed Sikhs during 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom. That was disgusting. As a Sikh he knew the truth, but for cheap votes he lied. The man came across as a boneless wonder, who would dance to the tunes of his high command. His conduct as prime minister proved me right. What is his track record as PM? He will rank along with Dev Gowda as the most underachieving PM of India ever.