So, Anish Trivedi is a castiest who thinks that quality of work in Government offices has gone down because of reservation. That is not my view but the views of the court that convicted him to six months of imprisonment…
the question therefore is :
a) is he a castiest
b) does he deserve to go to jail for saying, publicly, what many ‘upper caste’ men have been saying. the reason i say upper caste men – is that i have heard similar sentiments being expressed on the hiring of women in the work force…
I can’t answer a) – only Mr.Trivedi can …
But on B) .. I have only this to say. Section 3 of ” The Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989″ – the Act under which Mr.Trivedi was sentenced has this to say:
-
- Whoever, not being a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe –
- forces a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to drink or eat any inedible or obnoxious substance
- acts with intent to cause injury, insult or annoyance to any member of a Scheduled Caste, or a Scheduled Tribe by dumping excreta, waste matter, carcasses or any other obnoxious substance in his premises or neighbourhood;
- forcibly removes clothes from the person of a member of a Schedul-ed Caste or a Scheduled Tribe or parades him naked or with painted face or body or commits any similar act which is derogatory to human dignity
- wrongfully occupies or cultivates any land owned by, or allotted to, or notified by any competent authority to be allotted to, a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe or gets the land allotted to him transferred;
- wrongfully dispossesses a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe from his land or premises or interferes with the enjoyment of his rights over any land, premises or water
- compels or entices a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to do ‘begar’ or other similar forms of forced or bonded labour other than any compulsory service for public purposes imposed by Government
- forces or intimidates a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe not to vote or to vote to a particular candidate or to vote in a manner other than that provided by law
- institutes false, malicious or vexatious suit or criminal or other legal proceedings against a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe
- gives any false or frivolous information to any public servant and thereby causes such public servant to use his lawful power to the injury or annoyance of a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe
- intentionally insults or intimidates with intent to humiliate a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe in any place within public view
- assaults or uses force to any woman belonging to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe with intent to dishonour or outrage her modesty
- being in a position to dominate the will of a woman belonging to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe and uses that position to exploit her sexually to which she would not have otherwise agreed
- corrupts or fouls the water of any spring, reservoir or any other source ordinarily used by members of the Scheduled Castes or a Scheduled Tribes so as to render it less fit for the purpose for which it is ordinarily used
- denies a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe any customary right of passage to a place of public resort or obstructs such member so as to prevent him from using or having access to a place of public resort to which other members of public or any section thereof have a right to use or access to
- forces or causes a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to leave his house, village or other place of residence
Under which of these guidelines has Mr.Trivedi been sentenced ? From what little I can understand, none of them seem applicable…
While I believe that the The Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 is an important piece of legislation that allows for redressal against systemic and generational biases and discrimination, in this paricular case it seems like a sledge hammer used to crack open a walnut.
You cannot send people to jail for being bigots -unless they encourage others to behave in the same way and cause violence. Since you havent’ sentenced other bigots to prison for being bigoted – Ram Muthalik, L.K.Advani, Geelani – then why Mr.Trivedi.
You cannot send people to jail for being woefully uninformed – Government offices are poorly run – not because of reservation – but because it suits everyone concerned to keep them poorly run.. Otherwise, hafta kaise milega . You haven’t sent other people to jail for being uninformed – Simi Garewal anyone – then why Mr.Trivedi.
While I appreciate examples need to be made of castiest behavior – in this particular case it may have been a better idea to ensure that someone like Mr.Trivedi is given community service – working with Dalit and Tribal groups to understand what the world is about – especially the discrimination that Dalits and Tribals face in the work place. Mr. Trivedi – being a corporate creature, from a certain kind of background with a certain kind of visibility , is in a good position to raise issues that would otherwise be ignored. Primarily
a) understand the level of systemic discrimination that people face in Government and other corporate offices
b) publicize the impact of this systemic discrimination
In fact, he could be used effectively to advocate corporates adopting ‘equal opportunity’ as more than lip service.
btw – i could not find a copy of the original article on either the Mid-Day site or in google cache – if anyone can point me to the article will be grateful
Update 1 – an eagle eyed reader sent me a link to a site that quotes him. am not sure if i can quote the piece directly given the legal issues. However, Mr.Trivedi did call ‘children of reservation’ ‘lazy little shits’ … which seems unfair, and ill informed… but does it warrant a jail sentence ?
some simple questions: do you think he’s guilty or not? if you think he’s not guilty under the sc/st (poa) act, don’t you think this clause applies to his actions– ‘ j.intentionally insults or intimidates with intent to humiliate a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe in any place within public view’ ? if you still don’t think he’s guilty, why do you think he should be given even ‘community service’? if other bigots have not been arrested, does it mean this one should be let off too? being ‘uninformed’ is no valid excuse, not under the law. uniformed of what? the law or the facts about the situation in the public sector?
from what little i have read of his article – i think that he is a bigoted castiest.
Is he guilty of :
“intentionally insults or intimidates with intent to humiliate a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe in any place within public view”
the court has said he is guilty. i would believe it was intentional … the words were picked with care. Whether it intimidated or not — i don’t know..
on uninformed – uninformed about caste, uninformed about what the upper caste males have done for ever, uninformed about the fact that the caste system is still prevalent and vicious (do you know most urban ‘educated’ think that under the Independent Republic caste is abolished), uninformed that within a job scenario people from the reserved category are kept ‘warming the bench’ rather than be given skills that will allow them to complete a job… unaware that in govt. schools dalit kids aren’t taught well – incase they grow up to take ‘our children’s jobs … uninformed on so many levels that it boggles the mind.
The reason i would like community service rather than jail – is because opinion makers like him need to see first hand the ground reality. Before they shoot off their mouth … they also need to do something constructive to undo their words … 6 months in prison at your expense and mine may be a nice example … but a year or so of community service will go a long way in teaching humility
it’s not the dalits who are on trial– mr.trivedi is. for imputing certain derogatory characteristics to all dalits, insulting them. he called them ‘lazy’ for instance. that’s prejudice. what would be the purpose of ‘community service’? to let mr.trivedi know the ‘reasons’ for their ‘laziness’? provide him an explanation?
i personally found “little shits’ far more offensive … esp. given the historical context …
no not provide him an explanation. but, letting him see the reality of the situation –
I totally agree. In fact, I have argued elsewhere that while I am all for reservations (preferably based on economic criteria rather than caste) upto school, and perhaps college levels, it is totally unacceptable for jobs. This is not just because jobs should be given to those who are qualified for it, but also because it perpetuates, rather than diminishes, the caste divide. As someone once put it: India is a strange nation where everyone seems to be hustling to be declared backwards. sighhhh….
welcome to this blog
while you may agree with Mr.Trivedi’s views… i don’t.
i believe that reservation at the govt. employment level has ensured employment, and therefore a better future for next gen. in these communities.
to give you an example in the pvt sector media – not one dalit journalist – are you saying one person in all India is not ‘good’ enough – there is massive discrimination at the employment level. Names, accents all of these ensure that people are not hired.
Incidentally – the ‘uppercastes’ who form about some 18% monopolize most jobs, most resources, most of everything …
Ehhh… not one dalit journalist in the private sector media… seriously now gargi have you conducted a census.
I agree with Mr. Sengupta’s comment of reservation based on economic criteria. If at all you must have reservation why not exclude the creamy layer. I don’t think Barack Obama got to the White House on a reservation ticket now did he?
Lets stop talking about caste… the more we do, the more permanent the divide.
http://www.ambedkar.org/News/Whereared.htm
agree on creamy layer.
President Barack Obama – was the son of two university graduates – one who went from kenya, the other who was already in the US. a child of elite parents (given the number of kenyans or women who went to university in those days).
He is not African American in the sense of being born of slave ancestors – therefore the comparison doesn’t hold.Also, Mayawati doesn’t need reservation to become CM – she gets in on the basis of votes. jobs are a different matter.
Dr.Ambedkar on the other hand is an inspiration … 🙂
I was agreeing with you, not with Anish 🙂
As for the rest, let me ask you: Would you trust a doctor who got admission into medical college based on his caste, despite not having the required marks?
see: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)68826-0/fulltext
re Dalit scribes, since you wanted just one name, try Chandrabhan Prasad.
And he writes for the Pioneer, said to be a mouthpiece of the “upper caste” BJP.
I stand by my argument, that reservations at the job level perpetuates, not dilutes, the caste system.
See: http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/apr/12ram.htm
Also: http://www.sify.com/news/whats-caste-got-to-do-with-it-news-columns-jegrC4bagbd.html,
where I had argued that:
…..The oppressed and underprivileged in our country need privileged access to a rock solid primary and secondary education system. After which they need to be treated as equals, not with condescension. They have been discriminated against for far too long.
Let us not demean, belittle and alienate them further by offering them quotas based on their caste..
I rest my case.
thank you 🙂 (blush -sheepish, apologies and all that)
ON chadrabhan prasad – I had read this some time earlier and the name of the author had slipped my mind … the reference on Dalit journos in MSM actually comes form this article. . Granted it was written 8 years ago — if things have improved since then i am glad..
WHile i agree with rock solid education – the fact remains that it is inaccessible today. I shot in a dalit village a few years ago – a part of a docu series. women in the village started SHG’s thro’ micro finance. with their first profits they started a small school – where their kids wont be discriminated against.
there is tremendous discrimination at education institutes. till that is put right – this will need to stay.
On the doctor who got in due to reservation — it wouldn’t matter 🙂 i use ayurved …
but, flippancy aside – tell me how is this different from someone who doesn’t have the marks but pays capitation fees to get into a medical college
who said Resrvation not based on economic criteria creamy layer is already there, and why not reservations in jobs how one can compare 3000 years of subjugation with 50 years of affirmative action, its a constitutional obligation and a democratic principle which goverments and progressive citizens should adher to.
A friend above said how can a person came on reservation become a good doctor, do you have any cases to prove this sentence? I am you havent seen any of the cases its just your existence in job at stake thats why u are making this “halla gulla” giggle.
so called progressive thinkers those who talk about merits plz check this link http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-newdelhi/article1144668.ece how the merits of the students are been denied by the upper caste progressives.
Well sad bit is that nilesh
reservation is a political issue, ambedkar wanted it to continue for a decade
it is about vote bank politics and about the style of divide and rule politics the party in power for 50 yrs has mastered
it is not the deserving but the rich who use reservation the most
i have a friend who is the grandson of one of the richest jewellers in mumbai whose name nana chowk is derived from … this person got an engineering seat because he was a bc … sonar… did he deserve the seat?
D y patils daughter studied with my sister in a college in Pedder Rd mumbai
she got into medicine in kem while her father owned an education institute
and what was her merit … bc
and what about our political yuvraj … he got into st stephens using a sports quota and couldnt even manage to get his degree ….
what about obc and muslim reservation?
i know harinis lopsided views but creamy layer of dalits using this argument sickens me
it is not reservation but equal opp that helps make competent doctors and engineers
Southern States in Us has done far worse to blacks but the us govt didnt do reservation based on caste or creed they gave equal opportunity to deserving blacks ….not reservation to a person to do engineering and medicine who scratched trough …with 45 %
The way things are moving in this country, free speech seems to be losing out against bigotry. The intolerance of other people’s different views is creeping into every section of the society and is thus being reflected in even national institutions.
One must be able to exercise free speech if it is not to instigate a murderous mob baying for blood.
do you or i have the right to paint a god in the nude – we are not instigating a riot … similarly can you burn the flag – out of protest … both are the right to express freely …
what Mr.Trivedi said was incorrect, unfair and – now – criminal
Where there are Constitutional Rights there are Constitutional responsibilities – Mr. Trivedi overstepped the mark …
I am not making a free speech argument – that is a simpler argument to make … I don’t believe that there is something called absolute free speech … there is always a price …
But do we want those freedoms to be curtailed like burning a flag or a religious book? For that, we need to become more tolerant and accommodating. What I wanted to say is that I find that we are actually moving backwards in that department.
should discrimination be punished ?
should targeting an entire caste as lazy not discrimination ?
Discrimination should be punished. No doubt. But that is limited to who discriminates and not talks. If he discriminated against a dalit under his authority in favour of a non-dalit which was not based upon merit, he needs to be punished. Saying something is different from doing an act.
he didn’t talk – jayanta
it was a column published in a mass circulating news paper…
if an american columnist had written a similar thing about African Americans or any other American minority- he would have lost his livelihood and possibly faced jail time… this is the world over, in any civilised nation…
It doesn’t matter. It is an infringement to freedom of speech. And, no, it doesn’t happen in America. Remember Pastor Terry Jones’ Koran burning issue? Muslims are a minority in America. though he intended to carry that out in his private property, didn’t he do everything he could to publicize it?
🙂 we shall agree to disagree on this one too.
thank fully India is not America – Rights come with responsibilities … and breach of those responsibilities is being addressed
The honorable judge(s) must be a SC/ST like our former CJI.
i seriously object to that comment …
But it is true, is it not? Where else do you put SC/ST judges, but in interpreting SC/ST atrocity act? Or in Sikkim?
it was a Mumbai sessions court – justice KC Bedi – could be any caste under the sun
lol 🙂
should discrimination be punished by imprisonment ?
While freedom of speech is necessory it cant be absolute. Many individuals form their views by reading newspapers uncritically. Thus, scribes need to be very responsible. I bet newspapers like The Indian Express or The Hindu would have never published such a narrow minded, shallow and trivial piece.
Mr. Trivedi seems to possess exclusive social consciousness. He sees world with pre-conceived notions and try to fit things as per his convenience. He needs to appreciate social realities may be after he completes his stint in jail. Being unaware, that ones action amounts to crime, is not an acceptable excuse even murderers and rapists can argue on the same line.
Hi Rishikesh
I agree that freedom of speech is and should not be absolute 🙂 i actually do…
I was going to begin my blog post with a quip on his last name and ask what did you expect .. but realised it was the same kind of behavior i found offensive about him.
The argument in this post was not on his guilt but on whether a longish stint of Community Service would serve better ..
‘i personally found “little shits’ far more offensive … esp. given the historical context …
no not provide him an explanation. but, letting him see the reality of the situation
‘-‘little shits’ is pure abuse– anyone would find that offensive. but attributing a negative trait to a large group of people– you don’t find that offensive? that’s classic racist stereotyping. and he quite clearly mentions who those abuses/slurs are meant for: — ‘children of reservations’ . you don’t find it ‘intentional’?
very sad.
i found it intentional … i wasn’t sure that it was intimidating … that is what i said earlier …
you are right about the lazy … didint see it in that context…
While I do not agree that Trivedi´s article was discriminatory – most tabloids like mid-day etc overseas publish all kinds of extreme right wing views, I am secretly delighted at Trivedi´s punishment. There are far too many former investment bankers, who think they can come back to India after they lose their jobs overseas and start lecturing Indians on everything. A jail term will seriously do him some good. At least he will learn a useful skill, like weaving fruit baskets.
I have never heard of community service in India. Has any judge ever given out a punishment saying, “Rs 25000 fine and six months of community service?” If so, what community? What service? Maybe he should lift nightsoil in a dalit village?
Ha ha!!! Yes, I agree that his article was not discriminatory. My chuckle was on the lecturing Indians and learning to weave fruit basket part. You are probably right there.
For your information, Delhi experimented with this community service thing by giving the option to small offenders like drunken drivers to community service instead of a jail term like to assist traffic police for some weeks after work, work at old people’s homes, etc etc. This was welcomed. But I don’t hear any such cases.
Seriously what kind of a moronic discussion is this? I suggest all of you read http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674004238
This sort of elementary entry level discussion on a repeated basis really annoys the fuck out of me. It’s an insult to the part of humanity that has considered this a non-trivial problem and attempted a solution. Such as Prof T. M. Scanlon.
Three idiots in this page: Kuffir, Harini and Jayanta, please do not utter another word before you read that book cover to cover. Deal?
I am grateful to comrade Nilu for not including me in the set of idiots. The tamil proverb, “Many vedis can propose many things, but a single bedi can dispose of everything” seems appropriate to this situation.
Oh, shut the fuck up.
Actually, I just read your comment. I completely approve of you.
Instead of ordering OTHER people to read, perhaps you should read other people’s posts thoroughly before opening your big mouth or commenting here.
Quite amusing to see Nilu use bad language in the first reply back without reading the post; must be quite experienced in having people post back making him look like a fool!
Just thought I’d quote Justice Roberts here from his judgement yesterday
“Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and — as it did here — inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a nation we have chosen a different course — to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate.”
First i think the scst act 89 is far too vague , and subject to interpretation.
Im not defending Anish but this law is i think just like the dowry act and the Pakistani blasphemy law, is subject to gross abuse
Lets take a case if Ax a Suvarna and Bx a Dalit are arguing and the argument extends to caste and creed … both abuse each others caste/ creed whatever
if Ax gets jailed and Bx doesnt is this natural justice ?
This is the most used law if you want to take revenge on an upper caste boss and u are a dalit. Reservation is not really very moral after 50 yrs of independence …especially when creamy layer dalits use it most, . Plus brahmins are most targetted . were all brahmin ancestors evil or was it a system in force ? were the kshatriyas not hand in glove go to a rural area the next upper caste is most biased against a caste one rung below it… this is the truth of the matter…
is it ok if sonia abuses modi .and rss.as fascists. never mind if she supports and takes support from owaisis and madnis of the world…and came from a country that gave birth to farcism..and mussolini ?
harini i think all politicians are bigots …so please dont pick and choose
what about mayawati abusing brahmins?
Dont brahmins have rights ?
Are u not a bigot to an extent harini? am i not one too?
When a deserving candidate looses a seat he will have hatred, and maybe anish was plain pissed of because of abuse this system grants, most of all to the incompetent or the rich as most bc obc seats are taken by creamy layer individuals .
And lastly this is all politics and divide and rule politics of Congress govts over the yrs and the dire situation they have left education in..why is there perennial shortage of seats and why do politicians open colleges and stop foreign institutions from opening them here.? why the artificial scarcity? we could save a tonne in foreign exchange
first it is bc then obc , then muslim then what not …
when will this end and what about merit ? what about those lower middle and middle class upper castes who don’t get better education even though
harini not everyone can buy seats …
I read this long back, and you might have too. Got it again in my mailbox. It immediately brought my attention to this post again. I think the story fits here somehow:
In my opinion an act in constitution should be temporal depending on it’s scope, None the act in any constitution was written for ever. The Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Act was first made in 1950’s By B.R. Ambedkar for the upliftmentt of SC and ST for first 10 years. Later, our beloved politicians took political advantages by extending the terms of this act in the constitution. I think segregating humans based on caste or religion is itself a crime against humanity. And It’s a shame for us is that, our constitution is segregating humans based on caste and religions! Wouldn’t it be nice for the Government to replace the term SC ST and replace it with below poverty level? Don’t you all think, this is the demand of present era to make that change in the constitution? In my opinion, Anish Trivedi was trying to point out the gap in the constitution by stating an example that Indian Government offices perform very poor for the reservation of caste. Well I don’t really believe that is the reason, there are many reasons for that. Although it can be one of the reason I am not completely removing the possibility of the reservation system affecting the performance of Indian Government Offices. The only way you can accuse Anish by pointing out that, he was trying to judge human based on their caste. But hello, even our constitution does the same. So how can a system punish a person for doing the crime which is one of the rule in the system? Don’t you think it’s a paradox?